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Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Dustie - 11-04-2009
http://mtsmatters.com/2009/10/29/short-sea-grants-on-the-horizon/
Quote:The new grant program is broadly writ. To be eligible to apply for funding a project must be “financially viable†and demonstrate that “a market exists†for the project services. The Federal grant could be no more than 80 percent of the cost for which the money would be used. That use presumably would be to cover capital costs.
Sweet, I may even get you all (whether you like it or not) to fund 80% of my coastal shipping venture!
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Jakensama - 11-04-2009
Whats your coastal shipping venture? Maybe i can find you vessels for my normal 1.25% commission
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Dustie - 11-04-2009
Jakensama Wrote:Whats your coastal shipping venture? Maybe i can find you vessels for my normal 1.25% commission
Its just an idea right now but it has to do with moving goods up and down the east coast of the US avoiding congestion along the trucking routes i.e. I95. Its not competitive with rail right now due to the double taxation (port tax) that usually occurs on this type of traffic. Now that they may be removing that second taxation, and the fed seems to be supporting this new effort, it may be a good time to re-analyze the numbers.
Edit: Keep in mind, I have no clue what I'm talking about on this topic. I just know its what I want to do.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Jakensama - 11-04-2009
Bulk goods or containerized end consumer goods?
Anyways, if you need help I can probably find you rates for stuff if its in large enough quantities.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Dustie - 11-04-2009
Jakensama Wrote:Bulk goods or containerized end consumer goods?
Anyways, if you need help I can probably find you rates for stuff if its in large enough quantities.
My first idea was simply moving citrus and Florida specifics North and move corn, soy, etc South.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/sis5219
I don't know what container traffic looks like up and down the east coast, do you?
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Jakensama - 11-04-2009
Citrus requires special refrigerated ships (reefer vessels) which is a niche market that I don't deal in very often, but I could make some inquiries.
Agriproducts like grain and soy and everything really don't move in containers, they move in bulker ships which I do deal with, but the problem with that is the main bulk ports are all in the south (houston, louisiana, northeast seaboard but thats alot of metal products).
If you had small enough parcels to work the eastern seaboard ships than maybe it could work (I have no idea what inland transportation costs are) but you would have to hit the sweet spot in quantity - big enough to make it worthwhile but not too big for the eastern seaboard bulk ports.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Moristans - 11-04-2009
If investing in goods transportation futures is good enough for Berkshire Hathaway....
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Vllad - 11-04-2009
You can't compete with the rail for intra US moves using ships. The only thing ships do competitively are imports and exports.
The only exception to that is barge work to Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico for obvious reasons.
If you want to get into the Ocean transportation business you might want to try a nitch run into places that have potential for growth but are not covered by the major carriers. Something crazy like Europe to Ogdensburg or something really wacko like that.
Vllad
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Slamz - 11-04-2009
Maybe instead of east coast to east coast, something like east coast to Caribbean islands would work better. Or maybe even the northern parts of South America? That seems like a long haul, though.
And remember, we need Vllad to do this too, and have his own ship that always goes the opposite direction, so that the wind is always at our backs.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Dustie - 11-04-2009
I assume that there must be some unfilled niches if the various groups are pushing to support this mode of shipping -- those are some pretty big grants they're talking about. I'm sure there are a lot of very short route markets that could compete with inflexibility of rail lines to certain areas (at least I've read articles about such things -- again, I'm no expert).
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Dustie - 11-04-2009
Now I know that the government isn't always the best place to look for guidance, but there must be some opportunity, real or perceived if the Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee is looking into this.
http://www.joc.com/node/412319
Quote:Commerce Committee approves aid to U.S. marine highways'
The Maritime Administration would provide grants to develop U.S. marine highways under a bill passed by the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee.
A portion of Maritime Administration Authorization Act of 2010 would allow Marad to provides states and other public entities with grants to capitalize short sea shipping operators along routes identified by the Department of Transportation as likely to support waterborne intermodal commerce.
The grant program is intended to mitigate congestion, save energy, reduce pollution, and improve safety and system resiliency.
Ports or terminals also would be eligible for grants to improve the cargo handling for short sea vessels.
The Marad authorization bill also establishes a development fund to pay for port infrastructure improvements.
The bill now goes to the Senate floor for consideration.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Slamz - 11-04-2009
Maybe you can find routes that go to/from coastal towns without rail service to coastal towns with rail service. Basically bridge the connection.
But then you're competing with trucking.
If you find something that involves an island then you're competing with planes and other ships, which seems more reasonable.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Dustie - 11-04-2009
Check out pages 4,5,6
http://www.reeveassociates.com/Assets/pdf/TRB%20reeve%20pres%20012506.pdf
Edit: And I think that's from a few years ago, I'm guessing it will look better with higher oil prices and trucking costs.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Vllad - 11-04-2009
Those truck rates on that link are pretty subjective.
I can give the rail a run for there money with our leverage on rates.
You probably need to think about what your target customer profile looks like Dustie. Lets say you are doing New York to New Orleans/Panama City runs. What does your customer look like that you can compete with?
You need some good drayage rates to control cost and with enough coverage so that you aren't just doing the Motor Cargo thing of running goods from LAX to SFO. Can you handle the St Lawrence or are you just running out of Elizabeth?
Are you running pure containers? Who owns the containers? If you do how do you get your empties back? Are you providing a transload service so your containers aren't floating all over the country instead of on your ship? Do you lease the containers? Can you negotiate with some CFS stations? Do you stick with just huge bulk? Specialize in heavies? Do you charge on a cube basis or offer flat rates? Do you pre-sell your space?
It certainly has potential to compete with rail if you hit the right kind of customers and fuel cost gets out of control. You do need to think out the above subjects before you jump in the market though.
Vllad
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Slamz - 11-04-2009
I personally think he should anticipate rising fuel costs and buy a schooner, then start his own oak lumber yard somewhere near the coast, then haul the lumber to a buyer, perhaps at a shipbuilding port somewhere in the Caribbean.
That worked really well in Pirates.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Dustie - 11-04-2009
Vllad Wrote:Those truck rates on that link are pretty subjective.
I can give the rail a run for there money with our leverage on rates.
You probably need to think about what your target customer profile looks like Dustie. Lets say you are doing New York to New Orleans/Panama City runs. What does your customer look like that you can compete with?
You need some good drayage rates to control cost and with enough coverage so that you aren't just doing the Motor Cargo thing of running goods from LAX to SFO. Can you handle the St Lawrence or are you just running out of Elizabeth?
Are you running pure containers? Who owns the containers? If you do how do you get your empties back? Are you providing a transload service so your containers aren't floating all over the country instead of on your ship? Do you lease the containers? Can you negotiate with some CFS stations? Do you stick with just huge bulk? Specialize in heavies? Do you charge on a cube basis or offer flat rates? Do you pre-sell your space?
It certainly has potential to compete with rail if you hit the right kind of customers and fuel cost gets out of control. You do need to think out the above subjects before you jump in the market though.
Vllad
No doubt there are lots of things to consider. I'm still in the "is it worth it to take time and consider these things yet." Evidence from DOT is suggesting it might be, but I really want to wait and hear about that port tax.
Re: Coastal or Short Sea Shipping - Jakensama - 11-05-2009
Slamz Wrote:Maybe instead of east coast to east coast, something like east coast to Caribbean islands would work better. Or maybe even the northern parts of South America? That seems like a long haul, though.
My fathers company and Clipper pretty much have a monopoly on Caribs / North coast/east coast South America with bulk/breakbulk.
They price fix to prevent others from entering the market, been working pretty well for the past decade.