Posts: 7,105
Threads: 251
Joined: Mar 2018
Playing Dayz got me thinking, could a survival based MMO be possible and profitable?
For those who haven't played Dayz, its a sandbox, fps, zombie, permadeath, free for all game. You start with basically nothing and have an amount of time before you start to get thirty and hungry. To get those things you have to get past NPC zombies (and other players) or kill other players. All items obtained are in this manner with a few exceptions. However, when you die, you respawn without items and the "journey" begins again.
What if this was expanded with some other features found in past MMOs. Obviously, the FPS engine would have to be decent (WW2 online style would be my preference with a limited hitpoint system much like what Dayz has currently). Larger sandbox type world maps would be needed to allow for more MMO style of play. My thought is something like SWGs. I would also add a character development system, something simple for example 6 categories with 5 tiers each and experience is gained by doing various actions (example: days survived = delaying hunger and thirst, zombie kills = % dam to zombies, pvp = some type of tracking, mechanics (things built) = access to more buildables, etc). All of these would wipe if killed. The AI system would not only be a spawn at x location but also allow packs to transverse the map. Items would be a huge part of the game with them scaling with difficulty of obtaining them. Currently Dayz makes it fairly easy to get military equipment and farm it. I'd make it more raid style so you'd have to travel into a huge amount of zombies in a few "refugee bases" for example to obtain ammo for your badass sniper rifle. You risk death by zombie and other raiding groups. Otherwise you can use your 38 special and find ammo in houses with less risk.
Its hard to say with the current MMO style out there that players would be able to handle losing their top tiered character. That could turn off players of a permadeath game. However, if the journey to "endgame" is interesting and accessable enough then it might not be that bad. I think, speaking as a person who has suffered from altitis, this concept could change the idea that players must grind xp to level 60 and get bored. A game like this could make that "grind" to survive unique and exciting every time. However, there are a lot of gamers who need that leveling structure system to provide "level success" satisfaction. I'm unsure if a stats, badges and/or leader board system would help in that case.
Posts: 1,017
Threads: 113
Joined: Sep 2011
I think permadeath is fine as long as you give players some mark of reward for it. Like the way c-rpg mod gives players who "retire" (re-roll) a +1 to an item. An old MMORTS called "Shattered Galaxy" I played had constant campaigns resets and players didn't mind all their levels being wiped since they also received permanent vet perks based on level & performance.
I wouldn't advocate just giving players free +1 items or something like that, but there should be some reward on death based on player performance, wealth & longevity during their life. My idea would be on re-roll, the player knows the location of some of his old 'legacy" items which are now buried in the ground somewhere randomly in the world (not lootable by other players). Every generation the player gets a new item added based on his wealth/longevity/performance. Now it's not a freebie, the player would actually have to journey out, to explore and quest for it. Sometimes it might now be worth it, but it could be worth it if the player had a really badass generation once, and had some sick grenade launcher chosen as his "legacy" item.
This could actually add a lot of dynamism to the world, cuz it gives every character some unique starting quests and potential character goals. Forces people to weigh starting adevntures they probably would not otherwise undertake.
Posts: 7,105
Threads: 251
Joined: Mar 2018
Hrm. So, if you survived for 10 days, you get x points. Those points can be used to "level" your base starting character with a list of items you can purchase. This might also allow for micro transactions. That's a good idea.
Posts: 1,017
Threads: 113
Joined: Sep 2011
yeah that's a good, concise summary. But like I said my idea is the "legacy" items shouldn't be freebies every gen, you'd have to quest to find them. They might spawn in such an impossibly difficult location to all but make it a suicide run (which might actually be hella fun to attempt to get to anyways).
That's a good observation that it fits in nicely to a free2play payshop model, you could buy point boosters, or even premium items, but they wouldn't be too gamebreaking cuz you still wouldn't even spawn with them.
Posts: 9,594
Threads: 619
Joined: Mar 2011
In an MMO... I think it's possible, but not going to be like WoW successful.
Diablo 2/3 have hardcore mode, which a lot of people like... But it's not for the masses. Also, it's not the entire game. Diablo 3 wouldn't be as successful as it is if there was ONLY hardcore mode. Fact of the matter is, the masses don't like harsh punishments for dieing in their games.
Games with the survival aspect, don't really promote PvP. They promote avoiding PvP and picking your spots... which for most people, isn't exactly why we play video games. Also, with the nature of the internet, stupid shit happens that could really cause frustrations... one of the guys in the DayZ thread posted about a guy who lagged out, came back, saw a guy standing in front of him... killed the guy, only to realize it was himself that he just killed. If you play a game that takes work building up your character with decent gear, levels, skills... and then you lose it all because you got dc'd... that's pretty frustrating and doesn't exactly promote replay value.
In order to do this successfully, I believe you'd have to be more in the FPS environment, where all of the characters are basically the same. .. If you're going to add the survival aspect to it, it should be more of a scoring system... in a game where leveling and items aren't really involved.
I don't own kid gloves.
Steam Friend Code : 1636490
Posts: 9,975
Threads: 778
Joined: Nov 2004
Turboflex Wrote:An old MMORTS called "Shattered Galaxy" I played had constant campaigns resets and players didn't mind all their levels being wiped since they also received permanent vet perks based on level & performance.
OMG!
Someone other than myself who played Shattered Galaxy. That is one of my favorite MMO's of all time. I use it as examples all of the time when discussing MMO game design. The boys here were beginning to think that I was totally making it up that game called Shattered Galaxy ever existed at all.
It was a flawed game but one of the best PVP games ever designed.
Who is Turboflex?
Vllad
Posts: 1,017
Threads: 113
Joined: Sep 2011
Yeah Shattered Galaxy was really good and fun MMORTS I have no idea why someone has not done a modern remake of it maybe with more depth at least to the RPG/realm aspects, but the tactical model was really functional.
I'm not member of Purge but have been in Diggles' Mount & Blade c-rpg clan for a while.
Posts: 7,105
Threads: 251
Joined: Mar 2018
Strife Wrote:In an MMO... I think it's possible, but not going to be like WoW successful.
Diablo 2/3 have hardcore mode, which a lot of people like... But it's not for the masses. Also, it's not the entire game. Diablo 3 wouldn't be as successful as it is if there was ONLY hardcore mode. Fact of the matter is, the masses don't like harsh punishments for dieing in their games.
Games with the survival aspect, don't really promote PvP. They promote avoiding PvP and picking your spots... which for most people, isn't exactly why we play video games. Also, with the nature of the internet, stupid shit happens that could really cause frustrations... one of the guys in the DayZ thread posted about a guy who lagged out, came back, saw a guy standing in front of him... killed the guy, only to realize it was himself that he just killed. If you play a game that takes work building up your character with decent gear, levels, skills... and then you lose it all because you got dc'd... that's pretty frustrating and doesn't exactly promote replay value.
In order to do this successfully, I believe you'd have to be more in the FPS environment, where all of the characters are basically the same. .. If you're going to add the survival aspect to it, it should be more of a scoring system... in a game where leveling and items aren't really involved.
No. I'd go with the Slamz model of designing a game how I'd like it and not for the masses. That isn't really a WoW model.
The difference in gameplay vs something like D2/3 is that you don't have to spend 100 days getting xp to "be something". When you spawn you have just as much of a chance to kill someone who's been alive for years. Its ease of access to content thus very little "grinding" which D2/3 have. Even hardcore D2/3 people complained about lag deaths... I don't see that changing but if its easier to start over then who really cares?
Ease of play would hopefully balance death making the fun part just surviving or ruining someone's day. I think in a MMO style game of survival you'll definitely have those who don't PvP just to stay alive. However, that in itself is risky because around the next corner you could run into someone who'll blow you away. Especially if you're on a large map with thousands of people... that likelihood is real. It makes the game intense even for non-pvpers.
Posts: 7,105
Threads: 251
Joined: Mar 2018
I figured I should also post this here since some non-purgies might find it interesting.
Really good presentation about Dayz with the creator. I like his vision. He makes a good point about the industry and how people can effect it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAXqwewejwU[/youtube]
Posts: 1,234
Threads: 82
Joined: May 2006
Not to derail, but Shattered Galaxy is still around in a FTP model. You can play the full game for free, with certain restrictions
Posts: 9,975
Threads: 778
Joined: Nov 2004
Maren Wrote:Not to derail, but Shattered Galaxy is still around in a FTP model. You can play the full game for free, with certain restrictions
Really? That game was only fun with a bunch of players but I guess I will have to try it out.
Posts: 7,105
Threads: 251
Joined: Mar 2018
Well, I think the answer to this thread is on the way.
http://thewarz.com/index.html
Reportily, it was inspired by DayZ. There is no doubt that the success of DayZ has turned a few heads. Although looking at it closer... it looks like a DayZ clone and its calling itself a MMO.
Posts: 5
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2012
Indy mmo with quite a unique setting and FFA PvP
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwyglmi0kWo[/youtube]
|
