Fear the Walking Dead

[Vllad]

Some thoughts;

I guess from now on we have to assume that people have never heard of zombies who live in a world that is about to experience them in real life?

I always liked the fact that we never saw the world collapse in the Walking Dead since most of the time how the world collapses over just a bunch of dead rising seems unlikely. I guess we will find out just how good of writers they actually are now.

Why does no one ever tell anyone else what is going on?

I guess we are never going to know exactly where the virus came from?

[Zirak]

I keep hoping that this series will have a reveal as to the source of the virus.

[Zouji]

The problem with a fast spreading contagion is that you may never find the point of origin while the contagion is active. It takes a LOT of records to identify the source of an outbreak if it is widespread.

So the people on the ground and maybe even the CDC in the show didn't know where it came from.

The best thing about these shows is that the Zombie (whatever contagion) can show you a potential model of a disease spread (at least at the beginning). Once enough people have died due to the contagion the number of people that will get said contagion diminishes as the population thins out. Granted like the Zombies eating survivors a super contagion will kill a great many survivors simply due to the collapse of the infrastructure. Tuberculosis, Typhoid, and Dysentery, would probably make a BIG comeback in that world.

Also the next massive die off of humanity probably won't come from wars, but from a man made pathogen that escapes a lab somewhere. That thought should give you pleasant dreams at night.

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An estimated one third of the world's population (or ≈500 million persons) were infected and had clinically apparent illnesses (1,2) during the 1918–1919 influenza pandemic. The disease was exceptionally severe. Case-fatality rates were >2.5%, compared to <0.1% in other influenza pandemics (3,4). Total deaths were estimated at ≈50 million (5–7) and were arguably as high as 100 million (7).

[Zouji]

I hope they get to do something like the purposed Siege of Atlanta. I think during season 2ish Kirkman and the others wanted to do a Fall of Atlanta mini-series. It would have shown the national guards efforts and ended with the death of the tank crew that rick finds.

They couldn't get the money for it since AMC was negotiating with the Mad Men people over budgets for that show.

[Vllad]

One thing they allude to is the virus by itself can kill you. That in itself makes the apocolypse more believable.

Basically everyone has the virus and when you die you re-animate, however they allude to the fact that some people who contract the virus out-right just die from contracting it without having to become a meal.

So the any survivors are those who fought off the initial stages of the virus in combination of not becoming a meal for those who did die.

[strife]

Why does no one ever tell anyone else what is going on?

Yea, that has annoyed me as well. Don't tell them what is going to happen and just allow their ignorance of the situation to get them killed... real brilliant...

I guess we are never going to know exactly where the virus came from?

Didn't Tobias mention that it came from across the pond? I haven't been paying 100% attention while watching, but I thought he said he had heard about this from somewhere else, like conspiracy theorist message boards or something to that extent. That's why he was prepared for it to happen and why he brought the knife to school.

[Zouji]

As to why no one is talking about it:
#1 No one is gonna believe a nut saying that the end is nigh the dead are coming back to life.

#2 The people in the know need verified evidence in order to believe this stuff. This has to work its way up the chain of command.

#3 CDC was responding to the outbreak. You saw the people in the hazmat suits. They didn't alert anyone else since they probably had no clue as to modes of transmissions or the lethalness of the contagion. In that situation you want people in their homes and assure them things are under control.

If you told the American people that an unknown contagion with an unknown method of spreading with an unknown symptom list was out and killing people then you would have had a nation wide panic on day 1. The last thing you want with a contagion is people fleeing the area to infect others.

[Vllad]

As to why no one is talking about it:
#1 No one is gonna believe a nut saying that the end is nigh the dead are coming back to life.

#2 The people in the know need verified evidence in order to believe this stuff. This has to work its way up the chain of command.

#3 CDC was responding to the outbreak. You saw the people in the hazmat suits. They didn't alert anyone else since they probably had no clue as to modes of transmissions or the lethalness of the contagion. In that situation you want people in their homes and assure them things are under control.

If you told the American people that an unknown contagion with an unknown method of spreading with an unknown symptom list was out and killing people then you would have had a nation wide panic on day 1. The last thing you want with a contagion is people fleeing the area to infect others.

Strife and I aren't talking about the CDC and the goverment.

Example 1:

We are talking about how the Mother comes home from watching her kid run over someone twice THEN she heads out to get some drugs and smashes her friend/bosses head in. All of this action from what would appear a very typical mother and school employee.

Don't you think this MIGHT have come up in conversation when explaining to their daughter why she needs to come home or stay home to protect her son? Explaining how they may have just participated in potentially two murders of some kind of freaks (in their eyes) might achieve better results in controlling the daughter then just saying "because I said so".

Example 2:

The father is looking for his Son and instead of just texting or telling his son the details of the fucked up stuff that is happening and to get his ass home, he just demands in the name of safety that he should leave the area. That doesn't even go into the lack of conversation with his ex-wife but at least that I can live with. She isn't listening to him anyway.


When a situation gets to the point where you have to bash peoples heads in, we are beyond the point of secrets to spare the feelings of teens.

If my daughter was laying next to her boyfriend who appears to have some serious infection that I already clearly understand is dangerous, I would not be trying to negotiate with my daughter to get her ass motivated to move.

[strife]

Vlllllllad nailed it. I can see why the gov't wouldn't spread it(to an extent, at some point they have to alert the people).

The show doesn't do it because they want you to be constantly waiting for the boyfriend to reanimate and try to eat their daughter... if they actually use sense and protect themselves using the knowledge that they have based on events that have already happened, then it wouldn't create that oh shit moment next episode when the daughter goes in to check on him and he dies and then tries to bite her.

[Jakensama]

If people used sense in Zombie movies and shows and books, they would all be over pretty goddamn quickly and not very entertaining.

(Then again we've surpassed peak zombie these days so they really aren't all that entertaining anymore).

[Zouji]

As Jake said, people do dumb things. Also the parents are probably in denial over what happened and want to forget it, leave, and be safe. If they told the kids what they think had happened, then the kids might think that the parents have had some kind of mental breakdown due to the family trouble, rioting, and looting.

Granted that should cause the kids to stay home just to make sure they can help their parents through there apparent mental meltdown. As long as the kids don't think the parents will hurt them like the parents said they hurt some strangers.

[strife]

Jake is absolutely right... but it's still annoying. If their writing was creative enough, they would be able to make the stories work without having to make the characters in the show complete morons.

[strife]

One of my issues with The Walking Dead, was how fast it became a wasteland. My thought was, even though it requires you to die or be killed to become a zombie, the rate of spread wouldn't be that fast after people figured out what caused the zombies and how to kill them.

But Fear the Walking dead nailed it. After seeing the way people react when something they disagree with happens in real life(ie the Ferguson situation), it seems at least a little more plausible.

[Dharus]

People die about as fast as kids are born so it reasonable to assume that hospitals would be dangerous. The problem over this show is that it seems assumed that there is some government cover up (the "did you get a flu shot" line went around a few times in the first two episodes and that didn't sit well with me). At some point by now I think a public service announcement would have been made. I'm curious how inept the writers write off the military at this point. It seems they know a fair amount already but maybe they don't really? They are going to engage these zombies at knife point? I don't know.

Watching it sort of like Shawn of the Dead...

[Zouji]

The problem with the military is that is used to dealing either A) Another Military or B) Insurgents/Guerrilla fighters. Their weaponry, training, and gear are all there to deal with this.

Also firing into crowds of seemingly unarmed people has been generally discouraged over the years. Add all of this together and a society that has no fictional references to zombies may be caught off guard before an effective response can be organized.





People are generally against any changes to practices regarding how to deal with a dead person. Even if they have been told by those in authority that not changing those practices could lead there and there families death.

At the beginning of the Ebola epidemic, a huge number of people didn't believe Ebola existed. They thought it was just a suped-up version of malaria or aids. They would go into the treatment centers get there dead or dying relatives and take them home. Others never took there family members to be treated and simply cared for them at home. These actions lead to the whole families becoming infected and spreading the disease further.




If you want to read more on what the world might actually do against zombies you should read World War Z. Not watch the abortion of a movie. The description of the battle of Yonkers (in the book) showed how politics/incompetence could cause the mightiest military to be overrun by such a simple force. Granted in World War Z you can only become a zombie by being infected by another zombie. So if you die from any other means you will not become a zombie. Thus safe zones could be established.

[Jakensama]

World War Z is pretty unbelievable too despite the psuedoscience attempts at making it more believable. The Zombies are slow and just not enough of a danger that they would have gotten to the point where they did. Also, they wouldn't be able to walk on the ocean floor.

Walking Dead's world where ALL dead people come back unless their brain is destroyed is at least partially "believable" or things like 28 days later where the Zombies are fast.. or the last of us where its a spore based fungal thingy.

[Zouji]

Yeah I will concede the point that the world wouldn't be overrun with zombies from a WWZ (book) standpoint.

The bad thing is that our tactics, techniques, and training are not always up to the task at containing a biological outbreak. You should watch the Frontline documentary on the recent Ebola outbreak. It shows you how incompetent a government response can be and how many thousands of people will die (in a relatively short time) before an exceedingly deadly threat is contained.

This was for something we thought we were prepared for in advance (biological outbreak). That is the scary part. On the bright side containment and patient tracking work when you actually have coordination on the ground. The downside is if things become so overwhelmed that containment and treatment are no longer an option in an area, then things get pretty fucked really quickly.

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[Breand]

Can we talk more about how much this show sucks?

[Dharus]

Can we talk more about how much this show sucks?

Ya. I'm hoping the zombies win. I can't stand the characters and their decision making. The Latino dad is probably the best. Oh, i was sort of wrong on the military being inept... they are now bad guys? WTH. They conveniently skipped the colapse too much like TWD did.

The plot seems pushed like each character defy common sense to push some plot line along. Like the "nurse" ex wife who chooses to go help the military instead of stay with her son. My wife, a doctor, just goes "no way I'd leave my kid" and I agree. The world is apparently collapsed but I'm gonna leave my family? I guess they need a connection to get the drug kid rescued...

[Vllad]

Can we talk more about how much this show sucks?

Ya. I'm hoping the zombies win. I can't stand the characters and their decision making. The Latino dad is probably the best. Oh, i was sort of wrong on the military being inept... they are now bad guys? WTH. They conveniently skipped the colapse too much like TWD did.

The plot seems pushed like each character defy common sense to push some plot line along. Like the "nurse" ex wife who chooses to go help the military instead of stay with her son. My wife, a doctor, just goes "no way I'd leave my kid" and I agree. The world is apparently collapsed but I'm gonna leave my family? I guess they need a connection to get the drug kid rescued...

I am not saying the show is good but I do get what they are selling.

American's are nieve and only someone (latino dad) who has lived in a place that see's real human nature in country's who struggle to survive can grasp what man/fear is capable of.

This story is being told from the perspective of the people in the story. You have no idea what is going on from the context of the bigger picture. Very much like the original show they really aren't concentrating why, what or how like they advertised they would.

You only see the military from the perspective of the individuals of the story but I don't really see them as bad guys. They are making hard decisions that have to be made. Clearly they understand at this point that people that die become infected. They have to take them out of the general population to save the population. How do you do that nicely? Can't you see how this can easily go wrong? The culling is necessary and if seen from the eye's of those culled it can be seen as evil. No one is at the point of the story like the original show is where culling is second nature.

I think the point of the show they are trying to show you is;

People are nieve and they are still trying to grasp and hold on to the ideals that served them in a society that no longer exist.

The mistake the show made so far was somehow we went from rioting and clearly still a bunch of people alive with very few zombies to an isolated group of individuals in Los Angeles with very few people around them. How did we get there?

[Breand]

Yep the time jump is what really pissed me off. You create a spinoff that is supposed to show the crisis unfold...then you skip 9 days and don't show anything about how that happened? Again? What a cop out. I'm sure done for budgetary reasons.

I do like that aspect of what you are saying Vllad. But the writing is still pretty weak and none of the characters are likable.

[Dharus]

The mistake the show made so far was somehow we went from rioting and clearly still a bunch of people alive with very few zombies to an isolated group of individuals in Los Angeles with very few people around them. How did we get there?

Well, that's were the logic of character's perspective isn't really believable. These main characters knew what was going before it got this bad but in this last episode they are acting like nothing is wrong and the past 9 days nothing happened. Could they not hear any screams? Gunfire? Fires? Chaos in general? The wife heads out into the bad area and within a short walk she's seeing dead people shot but apparently they didn't know this? I'm sorry but putting myself in their shoes knowing that infected people were almost unkillable, biting, bloody messes running around in my town and the military setup camp in my neighborhood, I'd be trying to find out what's going on (without being obnoxious). Shoot the shit for intell, listen in on orders, get my binoculars out and scouting outside the fence, all the while prepping to get outta there. Instead each character is like in their own little bubble both with each other and the world about them.

So, I get that naive idea but when these characters saw first hand what was happening early, they start loosing points as time goes on. They can only be so naive but I guess that's why this is TV entertainment. They have to be naive I guess to move the plot along.

[Zouji]

People are that naive in real life. It takes a while before it sinks in that shit has gotten real. A couple of days is not enough time for pampered Americans to assimilate the culture shock of a world turned upside down.

It can take weeks or even months for someone to realize how bad a situation is. As long as that person(s) have a relatively safe place to be, they can easily watch the world fall down around them.

In the Walking Dead world however, most people that can't get over the shock get Darwined out of the living people pool.

[Dharus]

People are that naive in real life. It takes a while before it sinks in that shit has gotten real. A couple of days is not enough time for pampered Americans to assimilate the culture shock of a world turned upside down.

It can take weeks or even months for someone to realize how bad a situation is. As long as that person(s) have a relatively safe place to be, they can easily watch the world fall down around them.

In the Walking Dead world however, most people that can't get over the shock get Darwined out of the living people pool.

Ya, there are naive people out there and these characters seem written that way. However, in my opinion that kind of character is the worst and overused in horror film and TV. That's why the zombies should win. Fulfill Darwin's law so we dont have two zombie soap operas. Unfortunately I see the Latino Dad educating them during the rescue of their family members.

[Vllad]

Could they not hear any screams? Gunfire? Fires? Chaos in general? The wife heads out into the bad area and within a short walk she's seeing dead people shot but apparently they didn't know this? I'm sorry but putting myself in their shoes knowing that infected people were almost unkillable, biting, bloody messes running around in my town and the military setup camp in my neighborhood, I'd be trying to find out what's going on (without being obnoxious).

That is why this show is not good. You don't need boneheads to make the show good. They could have covered this with minimal budget. The writers are just not good enough to cover these topics in detail. That worked fine when you could ignore details in The Walking Dead but now that they are covering the actual start of the disaster and you have to answer questions they just aren't up to the task.

I would have gone a totally different route and kept it in the characters perspective.

I think they did just fine right up to this episode. I would started this episode with the military claiming martial law and sending people home who were trying to escape. I still would have had radio and other forms of communication up telling people they can't leave their homes without the possibility of arrest. I would have taken it to the area of our characters trying to avoid the military and now the continued growth of the undead. You do your stupid personal stories but this episode should have ended with the loss of all communications to complete silence except the gun shots and screaming going on all over the city.