Question...

[amins]

In additon to creating our own world, how hard would it be to create a 'Hub' that would ballance games (WoW, EVE, WAR, DAOC, FF, etc etc) in terms of compatability?

It'd be freaking cool to be able to have a WoW character and then use something like Stargates or EVE to travel around into other game worlds, like WAR...

Each zone hop could be an entirely different game, to which that games makers would have to subscribe (to us) in order to use our hub...

Is something like this even possible?

This was what i was looking at writing a book about and/or start out with like a Saturday morning cartoon, maybe streamed on the web with a monthly subscription + forums and stuff, and thought it would be a cool way to implement it into an actual MMO setting.

[Vllad]

Is something like this even possible?

Not unless every game uses the same character developement. As soon as that happened the first game to come out with something new would be the most popular.

Not to mention the technical nightmare of rendering animation based on different principles.


Vllad

[Slamz]

You would have to develop your own universe with that in mind from the start, with compatible rules and everything.

Basically you would need to create something like GURPS, a generic roleplay system that has rules for supporting basically anything from medieval combat to magic combat to psychic combat to space combat. Then you could create "worlds" where one world was all magic MMORPG and another was like Planetside and then you could create some way for the two worlds to cross over and interact, because they're both using the same underlying rules and game engine (that is, the magic combat rules exist in the sci-fi world, they just aren't being used until someone from the magic world shows up. Similarly, FPS rules exist in the magic world, but the magic users aren't using them.)


So you could do a hub between your own games if you built them that way from the start.

You couldn't do a WOW <-> WAR hub without complete cooperation and a ton of work from both Blizzard and EA-Mythic.

(It would be easier to just translate your character, so that your WOW Warlock with purple epics becomes, I dunno, a WAR Magus with equivalent level gear.)

[amins]

I wasn't thinking something so drastic...

Just like making the hub more of a transformation of laws and rules... So if you port to WoW, from WAR, you have to abide by the rules and laws of that games properties: Stats would gain the same value (2str = 1dps), range (100ft = 60ft), etc.

Ofcourse, there would be huge disporpotionate value between how much stats can be put on gear and stuff, but that's the beauty of it... on top of that, you could add stuff where if you kill someone and capture thier technology, you can enhance your own gear (especially since there so much "Talisman" / Gems typ gear slots now: you find a new gem that adds equivelant tech/magic).

We'd just want to create the Hub that everyone uses to ballance the different mmo's: Transactions = Money!

[Slamz]

Might be an interesting idea for an Ebay-type site.

Input:
* The character (or account) you want to swap
* The criteria you want to meet ("similar character type" / "similar time investment")
* The game you want to move to
Output:
* A character (or account) for sale in that game which meets your criteria

It would basically be a site to facilitate ebay style character trades, but customized for gaming in that it has translation tables to help you match what you have with what you want, without you necessarily knowing about the destination game. If you're selling a WOW magical ranged class with epic loot geared for DPS, it knows enough about other games to help you find a similar character to do a swap with -- another magical ranged class with epic loot geared for DPS from WAR, LOTRO, EQ2, etc.


That would be a feasible proposition, especially if you could rip off the existing online item databases and had enough understanding of the games to come up with formulas for equating one game stat to another.

Plus it would require no interaction from the game companies.

Of course we might have to run it out of Somalia or something as we would be helping people violate their EULAs and they'd probably try to shut us down...

An actual transfer from one game to the next would require companies to cooperate and let this hub manufacture characters on their server, which isn't really in their best interest. They WANT new players to start at level 1 because otherwise they get to bypass 95% of the content (even though that's precisely what a lot of new players want to do).

[Hoofhurr]

Ya levels 1 through (Max Level -1) are like commercials during your favorite tv show. They might be the game's profit margin but they add nothing to the game and they suck to subject yourself to. What we basically need is a way to Tivo video games.

[Slamz]

Yeah that's an argument I've had for a while. Two questions to any game developer:

1) Is your end-game sustainable? Of course they'll all say yes.
2) Then why do you need anything but an end-game? Just focus on that.

[Snowreap]

I can think of at least one legitimate answer to that second question: player training.

any game with enough complexity to not be boring is complex enough to require a learning curve. novices need to start with a limited number of basic abilities, and as they gain fluency in them more can be added.

a lot of us have the Orange Box, I'm sure, for TF2. but Orange Box also came with Portal, which is an excellent example of player training. when you start playing the game, there are obvious levels, and the apparent goal of the game is to reach the last level. actually, the levels serve no purpose except to train you in the various usage techniques of the Aperture Science Handheld Portal Device, and the real game actually begins when the training ends at the end of the last level.

the failure to account for player training was one of the big failures of the PvP server (Darktide) in Asheron's Call 1 -- after creating your new character you were dumped at a lifestone in a starter town, where you were mercilessly corpse-camped by high-level players, making the game nearly impossible to play, never mind learn. in AC1, the only way to learn the game was to play on a PvE server (or have enough resolve to wait for the griefers to tire of killing you).

if your game is going to have a PvP focus, then you need to provide an area where new players are able to learn the game without interference from high-level griefers (safe zones). but you need to force players out of those safe zones at some point, or they'll hide in there forever. in such a game, "endgame" then has a very clear boundary: the endgame begins when your access to the safe zones ends.

-ken

[Vllad]

Isn't that what tutorials are for?


Vllad

[Slamz]

I agree you need training but you can teach people 90% of what they need to know in a day.

It was always a point of huge annoyance to me that I would get "Fireball IV" and have to "train" on it for 15 days before I would finally get "Fireball V" and that wouldn't even be all that different. After I've killed 50 deer, I'm pretty sure I've got the hang of it and am ready to move on.


The legitimate answer is "time sink". They want you to cast Fireball IV 1500 times because that was a lot easier than inventing a truly sustainable endgame.

(I would actually argue that WOW has no endgame. If you have truly maxed out your character then you are at the true endgame and there is really nothing to do. WOW doesn't really have an endgame, it simply keeps adding more and more content in front of you so that you never REACH an endgame. EVE and Planetside are examples of games with true endgames: you reach a point where you are truly (or effectively) maxed out but you haven't "won". There's always more you could do with a team.)

[Snowreap]

yes, the examples you give are pure time sink. there's no need for those.

but suppose your game has basic melee moves, and it also has ranged combat, and then it has combos on top of that. you need to give the player some content that requires melee moves only, so that s/he can get comfortable with that, then add in some content that requires kiting, then finally some content that requires combos to get past.

a tutorial tells you that these features exist, but it doesn't give you a good opportunity to practice the basics before moving on to the next skill. unless it's a good tutorial, which most aren't. training content is an excellent way to fulfill the need for a tutorial while also immediately immersing the player in the game. that's one of the things that makes Portal so much fun -- the whole time you're doing the tutorial you think you're playing the game. it's only at the last level that you discover that the game hasn't started yet.

-ken

[Vllad]

Tutorials suck because you have 60 levels to learn that crap. Planetside tutorials can take all night to get through.



Vllad