Hypothectical

[Thudz]

Your company offers you a position heading up the India office. The pay is between $150-175K/year. They'll put you and your family up in a nice place and pay for a private tutor for the kids. Do you consider the offer?

For any of you tax professionals, what is your tax liability in this situation?

[Arsilon]

It would depend on how old the kids are but to me, yes its would definitely be worth considering.

As for the tax liability, I believe the first $75k is excluded from your US taxes. You are also subject to whatever the local tax laws are for foreigners in India which would also then be credited against what you owe the IRS.

[grizzle]

Not only would it depend on the age of the kids, but also the length of stay expected there, as well as where you could expect to move after it?

But in general, $150-175k/year, they pay your housing and tutors for kids for awhile, and adventure in a foreign country for awhile? Could be a lot of fun! I would seriously consider it!

[Vanraw]

I did an expat for 2 years, with me and family (wife, 2 kids). It was a great experience. However it depends on the deal they offer you. Some of the things I got.

1. American School Foundation (ASF) is a organization that has American schools / curriculum all over the world. Its and organizational that grabs some of the best teachers in the nation. See if your company is going to use ASF.

2. My company gave me the option of keeping my house in the USA or selling it like a relocation. We kept it. The company paid for a property management company to rent my home. and if it wasn't rented they covered the mortgage.

3. Tax equalization. America is one of the few nations that taxes you for income over 70k earned in another country. So you have to pay taxes in both countries. Also note that if the company is paying for house, giving you a car, paying for the kids schools, etc, these are all considered income in America. So your 150k looks allot higher on paper, and your responsible for the taxes. Most companies will do what they call tax equalization. They take your income, and the added extras they are paying for and define the difference between your normal tax burden in the states, and what you have to pay as a Expat. They then pay the difference. But wait! When they pay the difference, that is also considered taxable income. So they have to do it again, and again and again until they reach a zero means difference. At least this is what MCI did for me. On paper it looks like your making twice your income...


In the end it is a great experience for you and your family. You will find your self also finding other Americans and banding together to form life long friendships. If the offer is good enough it is also a very profitable deal. If your get the chance, take it. You will not regret.

[Moristans]

How old are your kids now Thudz?

As a military brat, I'll give you my perspective from a kid's point of view. I'm the youngest so I caught the tail end of my Dad's tours of duty. I ended up in Pattaya Beach, Thailand for about two years when I was 5.

As a kid, it was the greatest time, evAr. One big adventure. My parents never tried to shield us from the fact that we were living in a third world country. Judging from today's parents and kids, it's unbelieveable how much freedom we had over there. I saw, did, and ate things that 99% of American kids never get to see, do, or eat. Even though my Dad worked on a Marine base, we lived for most of the stay in offbase housing. I lost a lot of baby teeth trying to chew on sugar cane cut fresh from the field, and learned to appreciate the taste of freshly roasted field rat and roasted giant water beetle. I pretty much went native with all the freedom I had and spent a ton of time either at the beach or out in the sticks with my brother and our Thai friends. I learned a lot about another completely foreign culture, at least from a kids point of view, by practically living with a Thai family in their stick hut for days at a time. I probably helped that nobody could tell us apart from Thai kids, especially since my brother learned to speak fluent Thai. On the flip side, I was literally almost killed three times, only one of which times my parents actually knew about.

I went to kindergarten and started first grade while I was overseas. I went to small American schools, most of it out of an expats spare room that had been converted into a schoolroom. I received a lot of one on one tutoring because I was already behind in reading and writing skills from moving around so much. It was probably among the best schooling I recieved due to the student/teacher ratio and the dedication of the teacher.

The toughest part was coming back to the States. I had to relearn a lot about American culture and get used to wearing shoes again. I had to repeat first grade because we left midyear, so, I was always one of the oldest kids in my class until I graduated. I'd say for about 5 to 10 years after coming back to the States, I just really wanted to be back in Thailand. I spent a lot of time in elementary school either hopelessly distracted or feeling completely out of touch with American kids. I eventually got over most it by Middle School, but it was a bit of a struggle. I think a lot of the reason why I travel so much now is because the idea of being in a foreign environment was imprinted on me so early.

So, if your kids are gonna be a big part of your decision, it could be the best experience ever for them, but still completely unsettling in ways you probably can never completely account for.

[Jakensama]

The expat tax exemption is $91400 in 2009 plus you get a dollar for dollar exemption on any taxes you payed in your local domocile plus you can get some housing cost exemption. I exceeded this by a fair margin and my accountant managed to make sure I paid no US taxes. This is, however, kraut money from a kraut company into a kraut account that i paid kraut taxes on. If you were receiving your US pay check from a US company in US dollars, it could be a different scenario.

Where in India? Are there lots of othere foreigners in the company/other companies there? Having a good expat community around makes for a big difference. I know in a lot of the more non western foreign countries all the expats pretty much live together.

In the end, though, you have to make a judgment about your kids. Some kids thrive in such environments and some are miserable. I resented my parents for a long while when they took me out of a settled social environment and hauled my happy ass off to Alaska between 8th and 9th grade.. Although that is more third world than India....

[Jakensama]

I'd say for about 5 to 10 years after coming back to the States, I just really wanted to be back in Thailand. .

Once you pick up a Thai hooker habit, it is hard to quit, huh?

[Diggles]

Although India is an American friendly country, I would be very worried about their pollution.

[Jakensama]

Depends where you go, there are parts that are fine and parts where you wouldn't want to breath. Just like here (ever been to Beaumont Texas or Sulfur Louisiana?), its just they have a much higher percentage of ecological nightmare zones. They don't usually send ex pat workers to the bad areas.

Although hyderabad sucks, if thats where it is tell them F O.

[Diggles]

Doesnt matter, between all the shit India dumps into their water and what India and China put into the Air, I sure wouldnt want to raise kids there. It'd make LA Smog seem like a treat

[Jakensama]

Indias a big country, I've been to places that were fine and places that sucked.

[Diggles]

Indias a big country, I've been to places that were fine and places that sucked.

ya and you dont have a clue in hell whats in the water or air. it only takes a tiny little bit of some nasty shit to fuck kids up

[Jakensama]

Actually it is very testible whats in the air, which is why we know how in 2002 at least 146 million Americans were living in areas that did not meet at least one of the “criteria pollutants” laid out in the 1997 National Ambient Air Quality Standards.

Places where western ex pats generally congregate are clean and fine as anywhere else in the world. You also don't drink the groundwater in most non western countries so its largely irrelevant.

Millions of brits raise kids in India, read up on some expat forums of whatever area you are around rather than making a judgment off of nebulous fear.

Also consider you'll be socking away quite a bit more than you are now since the cost of living will be far less over there.. But at the end of the day it comes down to where the area is and how you think your family will cope.

[Diggles]

What do you think you bathe in? Bottled water? Its more dangerous to bathe (or I should say shower) in contaminated water than it is to drink it, because contaminated water vapor is inhaled

[Jakensama]

Filtered shower heads, although I have showered in numerous third world countries without any ill effects. Do you think Westerners move to these places without thinking of how to live there above the plebian locals?

[Hoofhurr]

You're going to have to bury your guns!

[Vllad]

It will be great for the kids.

It will be great for you. Every American needs some perspective. I recommend that every American live somewhere else for a while.


Vllad

[Hoofhurr]

Where do you want to be when the clock stops Thudz? With your guns or with red curry? :lol: Don't go!

[Vanraw]

Diggles (Mr. Pessimist) is in full swing . Here's the deal, every industrialized country has its "bad places" (Crime, pollution, terrorism, etc). Some more then others, but they also have their good area's. Usually where the money is. That goes for America just as well. Would you live in down town Detroit in the middle of gang land? No. Would you live in Times Beach, or next to a nuke waste dump in Colorado? No But that doesn't mean you would not live in America.

It just like any where else. You choose where you live.

Most Expat deals do not put people in harms way. If they did they would never ever get another expat to sign up.

I know you know this Thudz, but a message for diggles is, "Dont let fear stop you expe4riancing life to its fullest".

Again, our kids will love it. FYI mine were in 2nd grade and 6th grade at the time.

[Moristans]

Once you pick up a Thai hooker habit, it is hard to quit, huh?

Unfortunately, or fortunately, 40 years ago, Pattaya Beach was a sleepy little beach town. The only hookers I ever saw was when we took our trips to Bangkok. I had to be told by my worldly 11 year old brother that the nice ladies were "professionals".

[Thudz]

For reference the kids are 8 1/2, almost 7 and 2 1/2. The office is in Pune. Smaller city a few hours from Mumbai. It's a large tourist area and has a good population of expats.

[Breand]

my friend is an expat. He started in India, in Hyderabad, was there for about 2 years...absolutely hated it, and got transferred to Bulgaria, which he loves and has been for 5 years now (even got married and divorced to a local) with no intention of coming back to the U.S. He hated India tho. Said it was filthy, crowded, horrible food etc. There is a big expat community there tho, plenty of Americans to hang with. Bulgaria is like the India of Europe outsourcing because so many Bulgarians speak multiple languages.

Only thing I can say is make sure it's a contract, many companies pull out of their outsourcing deals rather quickly, leaving their foreign workers in the lurch.

[Thudz]

my friend is an expat. He started in India, in Hyderabad, was there for about 2 years...absolutely hated it, and got transferred to Bulgaria, which he loves and has been for 5 years now (even got married and divorced to a local) with no intention of coming back to the U.S. He hated India tho. Said it was filthy, crowded, horrible food etc. There is a big expat community there tho, plenty of Americans to hang with. Bulgaria is like the India of Europe outsourcing because so many Bulgarians speak multiple languages.

Only thing I can say is make sure it's a contract, many companies pull out of their outsourcing deals rather quickly, leaving their foreign workers in the lurch.

We own this company in Pune, India. It's not a contract. This IT office will out last our American IT offices.

[Thudz]

Where do you want to be when the clock stops Thudz? With your guns or with red curry? :lol: Don't go!

Dealing with my firearms is also a concern. I haven't even started the research as to what is legal there, if anything, and what I'll do with mine.

[Veraphim]

For reference the kids are 8 1/2, almost 7 and 2 1/2. The office is in Pune. Smaller city a few hours from Mumbai. It's a large tourist area and has a good population of expats.

As long as the place you are going is a tourist area it should be fine. Places like Goa and Bombay even probably aren't bad. Stay away from the tech-boom's cities as India has no infrastructure under their construction. Places like Hyderabad and Bangalore are complete shitholes in the Literal sense of the word.