Man points

[OrsunVZ]

Ok so I was shocked this weekend to discover that the watching of buffy the vampire slayer does not constitute a loss of man points. The reason I was given is "but the main character is hot." I replied that "there are hotties on america's next top model too, pansy-boy!" but you won't catch me watching either one.

So I gotta know... am I the only one that thinks this is worth a manditory turning in of the man card?

While I'm rarely the douchebag in the room yelling "Dude you're so ghey!!!!", this is especially important, because this bitch in question is normally said douchebag.

Needless to say there's an upcoming bachelor party to Vegas this guy's going to be on with me, and I'm trying to craft up a bet of some sort that would result in him wearing an I <3 Buffy shirt for the duration of the trip.

... maybe I'm taking this a little too seriously...

[Diggles]

Buffy's audience is 80% female, so yes it would be a mancard loss. Not to mention I never remembered there being anyone all that hot on that show. SMG = ugly bitch


However something like Legend of the Seeker, which is hot babes in tight leather and Victorian boob pusher-uppers that do quests that end up killing other people is just a-ok.

[Dustie]

Ok so I was shocked this weekend to discover that the watching of buffy the vampire slayer does not constitute a loss of man points. The reason I was given is "but the main character is hot." I replied that "there are hotties on america's next top model too, pansy-boy!" but you won't catch me watching either one.

So I gotta know... am I the only one that thinks this is worth a manditory turning in of the man card?

While I'm rarely the douchebag in the room yelling "Dude you're so ghey!!!!", this is especially important, because this bitch in question is normally said douchebag.

Needless to say there's an upcoming bachelor party to Vegas this guy's going to be on with me, and I'm trying to craft up a bet of some sort that would result in him wearing an I <3 Buffy shirt for the duration of the trip.

... maybe I'm taking this a little too seriously...

You are completely in the right here. If the said person didn't call other people out, then maybe you could let him slide. In this case, he needs to be nailed for this. Your case is strong imo. I know some people here like Buffy but they aren't the kind of people who go around calling others non-manly.

[Vllad]

Gilmore Girls and Glee are chick shows. Buffy is not. Any show where you stab people in the chest is not something women watch.


Vllad

[Slamz]

Yes, if you're defining "men" as large, hairy beasts who only watch NASCAR and chew on tires, then Buffy is probably not for them. There may be too much dangerous thinking involved in the show. What I mean to say is, YOU NO LIKE BUFFY. BUFFY BAD. WATCH CAR GO ZOOM ZOOM IN CIRCLE. CAR GOOD.

If you're defining "men" as "people who are not women" then Buffy is a show for men. As Vllad said, it's basically a show about attractive women stabbing monsters. It's a show for nerds, but still aimed pretty squarely at male nerds.


(You'd have a slightly better argument with the spinoff show, Angel. But even there it's basically a show about a monster who kills other monsters. If you want a vampire show for women, you'll have to watch Twilight. Good luck with that.)

[Jakensama]

Buffy, Charmed, Twilight - all gay. Super gay. Whedons already said the show was an expression of third wave feminism of which he vocally champions. Plus Sarah Michelle Geller is not that hot and neither are Gingers.

So, it seems, Vllad and Slamz are bra burning radical feminists.

True blood - kinda gay but has nudity so at least theres an excuse.

Im too lazy to look into detailed demographics but a cursory search found

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/pr/0,20812,667569,00.html">http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom ... 69,00.html</a><!-- m -->

BURBANK, CA - The WB ranked #1 amongst all networks for the November sweep in female teens with a strong 5.7/17 and is very competitive among females 12-34, posting a 3.3/9 to defeat CBS. The WB features nine out of the top 20 series among female teens, with Dawson's Creek, Charmed, 7th Heaven, Popular, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel all placing in the top 10 programs viewed by that trend-setting demographic. The WB is also performing well this sweep among women 18-34 (2.4/6), women 18-49 (2.1/5) and Persons 12-34 (2.4/7).

So while it was popular for teenagers and young people in general, Buffy was one of the top series targeted not just to females, but female teens.

You two enjoy your sex and the city parties.

[Fretty]

I've seen maybe two episodes of Buffy, didn't care for it either way. Wasn't bad, wasn't good, just a time killer really.

That being said, the only people I know who enjoy the show (there are at least 8 people I know who do) are either female or gay males.

I'm not saying that above statement reflects all the viewers, but it must say something about the numbers overall.

[Vanraw]

I watched Buffy, and Angle and liked it, and can tell you beyond a doubt, my Wife did not. I will say that you have to get past the first season. There s stabbing, blood, Apocalypse after Apocalypse.

Loss of Man points? naaaa.

[Snowreap]

I think it *is* possible for a show to have universal appeal, but to have a much larger share of women viewers because, in that time slot, there is simply nothing else on that's appealing to women.

being able to make a show that's *so good* that both men and women want to watch, is not beyond Joss Whedon's abilities.

I haven't watched enough of it to say for myself whether he actually did achieve this with Buffy, but I suppose I will at some point since we have the Buffy dvd box set (still shrinkwrapped). my wife and I both like Joss Whedon's work, particularly Firefly.

-ken

[Riz]

Without weighing in one way or the other on that particular show (and I think it's Josh's worst writing personally), if you are so hung up on your manliness that you can't watch that show without feeling emasculated, go wash out your vagina.

The things which bother us most, are likely the things we are hiding from ourselves. From reading your post pal, I'm not saying you are gay, but I think the dude fucking you may be.

[Jakensama]

I've seen bits and pieces of Buffy and usually didn't actually find it too gay, just a little cheesy, but was never something I would actually go out of my way to watch.

My argument that its a chick show other than the statistics are that I know tons of girls with Buffy boxed sets at their homes but have never seen a guy with one.

[Breand]

There's no way Buffy is strictly a chick show. Two words: Eliza Dushku. If youre gonna call Buffy a chick show, then so is Firefly.

[Jakensama]

She was also in "the Kiss". If you think having a hot chick makes something guy friendly then I think you are have just started to justify all the Rom Com's you've agreed to see with the wife

Anyway, I probably wouldn't give someone shit about a guy being a Buffy fan per se, its kinda a grey area. But if it was someone who had the tendancy to call people gay for their tastes then it would certainly be adequate retalitory ammo.

[Vllad]

The question is do you see a difference between Gilmore Girls and Buffy?


Vllad

[Jakensama]

I see a difference between Gilmore Girls and Sex in the City too, though - so thats fairly irrelevent - they are both aimed at chicks.

Adding vampires and monsters may make things more palatable to guys, but it doesn't all of a sudden make it a guy oriented show - which is especially apparent given the recent chick fascination with shitty vampire fiction and tv.

[Grieve]

I call bullshit on the whole argument. All I care about is whether something is good, whether it's TV, a movie, a book, or whatever, not whether it's "a chick show" or "a guy show". I would rather watch, say, The Terminator than Twilight, but that's because Twilight was a load of old bollocks (yes, I did watch it with my wife). I would equally rather watch Pride and Prejudice than Saw 12. Quality > categorization

I'd say you only need "man points" if you're already have issues with your own masculinity...

[Slamz]

In what way does a discussion over a "man card" differ from any other "fashion police" discussion?

What type of people are usually the "fashion police"?

/thread

[Jakensama]

I would equally rather watch Pride and Prejudice than Saw 12.

You know how I know you're gay?

(I would rather have my eyes gouged out that read or watch anything from Jane Austin - a pox on your country for both her and the Bronte sisters).

You can not care about catagorizations when enjoying cinema, there are chick shows and movies that I actually enjoy as well. But it doesn't make the catagorizations or the intended audiences of programs invalid - and the intended and actual audience of buffy was slanted towards young girls.

Just like no matter how much you care about fashion, it doens't make wearing brown shoes and a brown belt with black slacks any less of a travesty - and I don't care what the Eurofags thinks.

[Vanraw]

go wash out your vagina.

lol

[Grieve]

(I would rather have my eyes gouged out that read or watch anything from Jane Austin - a pox on your country for both her and the Bronte sisters).

And I would rather have my eyes gouged out than watch someone else get their eyes gorged out in the Saw movies.

Some movies and shows are aimed a particular audience, but if it's a good (or a bad) movie, who cares? I didn't watch Buffy (apart from a couple of episodes), but I know the critics raved about it.

[Jakensama]

While I don't believe for a second you wouldn't give a friend shit if you walked in and he was watching Sex and the City or such by himself, the whole point was that the dude in the original story always questioned other guys manhoods, at which point watching a show aimed at young teenage girls - regardless of it's value outside of that - is IMO perfectly valid ammunition for shit talking.

[Grieve]

I have very often walked in on Slamz and Dustie watching Sex in the City, while pulling issues of US magazine from their man-purses and discussing the previous night's Dancing with the Stars.

I don't judge.

[Vanraw]

I have very often walked in on Slamz and Dustie watching Sex in the City, while pulling issues of US magazine from their man-purses and discussing the previous night's Dancing with the Stars.

I don't judge.

This is Gay come out month!

[Dustie]

Remember that despite what are opinions are, we have a guy (Orsun's antagonist) who's calling out others on their manliness despite the fact that he watches Buffy.

My argument is this.

Watching Buffy = ok (if you're secure in your manliness)
Watching Buffy and calling others non-manly = not ok

Edit: Great discussion starter Ors!

[Breand]

Buffy is an ensemble show that happens to have a (barely attractive) chick in the starring role. It was created, exec produced, written and directed by a man. It's target audience was men, particularly geeky men. It's why I said if you think Buffy is a chick show, then so is Firefly, which is another Whedon show that has tons of strong female characters. And as a bonus the women on Firefly were a hell of a lot hotter than on Buffy.

The funny thing is Angel was probably more of a chick show than Buffy.