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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:39 am 
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I mean probably, we weren't winning anyway - Fosters going to be borderline hurt all year as is Clowney and it was going to be a rebuilding year anyway.

Unfortunately we aren't going to get a great draft pick anyway since we have a game against tennessee and 2 against jacksonville that we should win even with fitz.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:16 am 
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TinStar wrote:
I agree Jake. I mean, do you think Aaron Rodgers would be a badass if he had played as a rookie? But should we flush the season down the toilet with Fitz?



What else can you do?

You guys just sucked at the wrong time. No QB in the draft with exception of Carr which you guys were never going to take.

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/quarterback/

Unless you get lucky in the draft I think the only real QB free agents this year are Hoyer? Maybe Colt McCoy? Matt Moore could be average or god forbid Mark Sanchez! Jason Campbell can win in your system. He needs a running game.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:50 am 
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We should sign Tim Tebow... just for the lolz

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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 12:02 pm 
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Better him than Manziel.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Instead they signed Thad Lewis, who was released by the Bills in training camp. Fitz back to start.

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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:30 pm 
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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... s-probably

Quote:
"He would be an absolute nightmare to deal with on offense if he was out there full time," Conwell told ESPN.com. "If J.J. Watt played tight end full time he would be a bigger, nastier (Rob Gronkowski). He'd be Gronk but with 30 more pounds of muscle and much meaner.


lol

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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:17 pm 
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In other news, ESPN wants to drum up some attention for mvp voting since just saying its going to rodgers would be boring.

In other news, do you remember this gem of Houston sportswriting:

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/spor ... ton-lover/


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Wow, I didn't see that article before. Watt has almost as many sacks this season as Fairley does in his career.

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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:57 am 
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Those articles are silly. Watt is not a great tight end he is a great defensive linemen who can catch. Defensive players don't win MVP's unless they have epic years which Watt is not having. Watt is not having the Lawrence Taylor kind of year that it takes for a defensive player to win MVP. MVP winners also don't play on marginal teams.

Watt is having the kind of year like Justin's Smiths 2011 year, Bruce Smith's 1987 year or Richard Dents 1990 year.

Their are many years that Defensive players deserved it but didn't win it. Watt isn't in that class.

2001, Michael Strahan, 1987 Reggie White, 1966 Deacon Jones, 1989 Keith Millard.


A QB will win MVP just like always.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Rogers is going to win (because, like the Heismann, MVP is not "most valuable player" but the best player on a strong team) but Watt is having a historically good year..

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/12/03/jj-wat ... se-nfl-mvp

Quote:
From a total pass rush perspective, however, Watt has absolutely no equal in the current NFL. Per PFF, he is absolutely destroying every other defensive player as a pure quarterback terrorizer. He has 33 quarterback hits and 35 quarterback hurries to go with his 11.5 sacks. The next best 3-4 end in hits is Green Bay's Mike Daniels with 10, and the next best in hurries is San Francisco's Ray McDonald with 28.


LT's sack record wasn't anything special in the 80s, Watt tied it last year.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Jakensama wrote:
Watt is having a historically good year..

LT's sack record wasn't anything special in the 80s, Watt tied it last year.



Watt isn't even having a better year then he did two years ago. It certainly isn't historic. He isn't going to break any records and playing offense to pad his TD's total isn't exactly the same thing as scoring TD's all on D like Ken Houston's record of 7 or 8?

Watt isn't even in the same area code as LT was in 86 let alone Page in 71. Page and LT completely dominated games. LT didn't win the MVP because he got 20 sacks he got it because he was dominating games on defense in ways never seen before 86. It was no easier to win the MVP as a defensive player in 86 than it is now but he won it anyway.

LT did everything to the point where the MVP vote wasn't even close. In other words in order for defensive players to win MVP over QB's/RB's they have to dominate in ways never seen. Unless Watt gets 12 more sacks, scores 3 or 4 more TD's ON DEFENSE and actually carry's his team to the playoff's Watt is just having another really good year.

I think you are dead wrong about his sack record. LT's 20 sack season in 86 is equal to 25 sacks in today's NFL.

Their will be no debate when a defensive players dominates a season well enough to win MVP again.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:55 pm 
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I hear this debate all the time in hockey but it's also relevant in the NFL. You can't compare a player 20 years ago to a player of today. It's a completely different game and for reasons that make the game easier/more difficult in certain aspects, it's not the same game. The only way to do this would be to either send JJ Watt back into time or bring LT to 2014. Now what you can do is compare a player to other players in the game, and there is no denying that JJ Watt is the most dominant defensive player in the league right now.

I do agree about the TD totals though.. Adding offensive TDs to a defensive players resume doesn't make him a better defensive player.

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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:58 pm 
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Agreed, the padding offensive touchdowns are fun and if they help get the team fired up then go for it - but they are functionally irrelevant. (Although he would be a good TE if that was his position again).

Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't be as good today as he was back in the day (especially if he was stuck on the Lakers) either... but his acting abilities still would have killed it like in Conan 2.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:13 pm 
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I don't buy the 20.5 sacks in 86 is like getting 25 in 2014... there were 2 other players right on LT's tail in sacks, Manley with 18.5 and White with 18, which tells me that although 20.5 was a lot of sacks... it wasn't like he ran away with it... others were close to the same numbers.... Hell, White had 21 sacks the next season(a season in which you said Watt was having a comparable one to).

Let me list the players recently with 18 or more sacks...
2013, Mathis at 19.5, Quinn at 19
2012, Watt 20.5, Smith 19.5, Miller 18.5
2011, Allen 22, Ware 19.5, Babin 18
2010, nobody, tops was 15.5(Ware)
2009, nobody, tops was 17(Dumervil)
2008, Ware 20

Seems pretty comparable...
Sacks seem about the same as they did in 1986, or at least about as hard to get them.

I highly doubt Watt will win... like has been mentioned, it's Rogers' to lose... but Watt is the most dominant defensive player in the NFL right now... and the offensive touchdowns are a nice touch to go along with that.

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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:17 am 
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TinStar wrote:
I hear this debate all the time in hockey but it's also relevant in the NFL. You can't compare a player 20 years ago to a player of today. It's a completely different game and for reasons that make the game easier/more difficult in certain aspects, it's not the same game. The only way to do this would be to either send JJ Watt back into time or bring LT to 2014. Now what you can do is compare a player to other players in the game, and there is no denying that JJ Watt is the most dominant defensive player in the league right now.


I agree it is a very different time.

Saying Watt is the most dominant defense player today doesn't really have the same meaning it did in the 70's or 80's of the NFL. You get a glimpse of it now and then but the days of dominating defense and defensive players are long over. Defensive players simply can't win games any longer like Mel Blount, Deacon Jones, Ronnie Lott or Jack Tatum did.

It was damn hard to win an MVP in the days when defense did dominate, I can't see a defensive player ever winning MVP again unless some freakish athletic DB comes along who can return kicks, punts and maybe play WR. If you combine the 06 season of Devon Hester with the 1980 season of Lester Hayes then maybe you get a defensive MVP.

Sheesh, for a D-linemen? 25 sacks, 5 or 6 defensive TD's that directly lead to winning those games PLUS average QB play around the league with no 2,000 yard rushers. Basically, Brees, Manning, Brady, Rogers and Luck will all have to end up on IR the same year.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:09 pm 
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The bullshit issue is that when you have all these QBs lightining it up all the time, the relative value of one over the other is not all that great. It's why no one picks a QB in the first few picks of fantasy (if they know what they are doing or aren't in some 2 QB league), because although you know rogers and manning are going to put up a shitton of points for you, the amount of production point wise is not relatively all that better than Stafford or something.

Obviously in real life its a bit different, but the same concept holds. The difference between Aaron Rogers (who is gonna win MVP) and the next best player at his position is not amazingly great. The difference from JJ Watt and the next best player at his position (and, probably any defensive position) is gigantic - there is simply no one close. It's like the WAR (wins above replacement) state in baseball, which unfortunately is not calculable in foobtall since there are so few games and less valuable metrics.

He won't win, because it's a beauty pagent rather than an actual MVP voting - but his story is good enough that he will be coming in second ahead the other QBs with voting too.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Jakensama wrote:
He won't win, because it's a beauty pagent rather than an actual MVP voting - but his story is good enough that he will be coming in second ahead the other QBs with voting too.


This is one thing that has never changed in the NFL. The same arguments we are having now about the MVP was had in the early 70's. The NFL is a team game and the concept of an MVP is rather silly.

Who is more valuable? Rogers or the line who plays in front of him who without he would look rather pedestrian. The press voters give the MVP to QB's and RB's because it is something they can tangibly see. Ironically the players like Tyron Smith which is having one of the best seasons in football go un-noticed.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:46 pm 
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How did a placekicker win it in the 80s? My historical knowledge of the NFL sucks since I didn't like sports until college..


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:50 pm 
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Jakensama wrote:
How did a placekicker win it in the 80s? My historical knowledge of the NFL sucks since I didn't like sports until college..



That was the strike shortened season of 9 games in 82.

Mosely had like a freakish run of luck where the Redskins needed him every week to kick a game winner or game tying field goal in every game. Granted it was only 9 games that year and I know they had at least one blow out against the Rams. Basically the Redskins could have gone sideways any number of times and Mosely always bailed them out. The fact that they won the Super Bowl that year didn't hurt either.

It felt appropriate at the time to have a kicker as MVP when the entire season was just wierd. 9 game schedule, 16 play off teams (I think a couple had 4-5 records) and wierdness all around.

82 was really a pre-cursor for 83.

The Raiders and Redskins were clearly the two best teams in the NFL in 82 and 83 and it is likely they would have meet in two consecutive Super Bowls if not for a non call turn over in 82 for the Raiders. The following year in 83 the Raiders and Redskins played what may be the greatest regular season game I have ever seen then later played each other again in the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl was a route though.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:02 am 
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FYI

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/defen ... n-sanders/


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:30 am 
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Rogers just had the worst game of his career when I had him starting in my fantasy playoffs - if he costs me a grand I hope it costs him the MVP.


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Ouch... ya, Pretty crazy for him to have such a bad day.

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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Lol - foster passing TD.. Does he get fantasy points for that?


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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:09 am 
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in our league Foster definitely gets 4 pts for a passing td. JJ Watt has had some really good games in our league as well with the receiving tds adding 6!

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 Post subject: Re: 2-0 Jake!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:15 am 
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Do you have a defensive player spot in your league, or did they give the Texans D points for his receiving TD?


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