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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:33 pm 
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I'm pretty sure I got into ST:TOS when I was, like, 10.

Maybe today's 10 year olds wouldn't be as into it if only because there are so many other choices now.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:28 pm 
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Pfft, baseball? What's that?

My children can tell you about Star Trek, Star Wars, Firefly, Babylon 5, Farscape, Dr Who, etc, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:59 pm 
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Zirak wrote:
Pfft, baseball? What's that?


That game Captain Sisko likes a lot.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:39 pm 
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Vllad wrote:
Diggles wrote:
Vllad wrote:
Has their ever been anything good about Star Wars?


Much more gray area in Starwars and far more interesting than the black/white of StarTrek universe. Like comparing Marvel to DC.


Ok, I can see that but has anything ever been good about Starwars? 1 average movie of the 6 that were made. The clone war stuff makes no sense and has unexplained plots plus numerous failed computer games.

The entire Starwars franchise is one poor product after another but people continue to spend millions/billions of dollars on it. I guess I just don't get the appeal.

What is it about Starwars that captivates people? I truly don't understand.


Its a classic story of good vs evil. You put it in a space setting with things like smugglers, bounty hunters, gangsters, overbearing government, and noble freedom fighters its more "real" vs utopian ideas of future space. There is more mystical theme as well were "religion" can shape the universe. All of these can be appealing.

The xwing and tie fighter games were huge hits. SWG was popular but broken.

I see Star Wars like Eastwood westerns vs Roy Rogers or even John Wayne westerns. There is a gritty, personal aspect to Star Wars that others dont have. Star Trek has more theoretical science for realism but Star wars gave scifi the Mos Eisley Cantina.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Yeah, but does Star Wars have awesome special effects like Star Trek:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:58 pm 
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Dharus wrote:
Its a classic story of good vs evil. You put it in a space setting with things like smugglers, bounty hunters, gangsters, overbearing government, and noble freedom fighters its more "real" vs utopian ideas of future space.



Sounds good in theory but that is not the Starwars I saw.

How evil can a whinny little bitch like Anakin Skywalker be? He mostly just acts like a spoiled little kid who needs his ass slapped. He turned to the dark side over nothing. I can go with the overbearing goverment but given that they were dupped by a less than intellegent being how smart can the galaxy's leaders be?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:37 pm 
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That is one of the biggest gripes I have with episodes 1-3. They had a three movie arc to craft a good story to show Anakin Skywalker's turn to the dark side. With all of that potential the best they can come up with is basically, "What would you do for a Klondike bar?"

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:51 pm 
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Yeah, I mean the hook of saving a loved one is a perfectly reasonable, but all of a sudden going from on the fence to killing a bunch of little kids is more than a bit stupid.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:24 pm 
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Compare Anakin to any of the modern teenage sociopaths. Seems like a good kid with some emotional problems. The kind of kid no one ever thought would be capable of something like that. Seems legit to me.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Jakensama wrote:
As for best sequel ever - I think most people consider that to be Godfather 2. In the sci fi genre both Terminator 2 and Aliens were better sequels..

It's funny, they always talk about the "difficult" middle movie in a trilogy, but for me it's usually the best movie by far. Godfather 2, Empire, Spiderman 2 (original), Superman 2 (original), XMen 2, Blade 2, Dawn of the Planet of the apes (reboot), Aliens, Toy Story 2, Star Trek 2, The Dark Knight, Captain America 2, Mad Max 2, etc, etc. In fact it's the third movie in the series that usually sucks (or at least isn't as good - Jedi, Godfather 3, Spiderman 3, Superman 3, Xmen 3, Alien3, Star Trek 3, Mad Max 3, etc).

Anyway...Jake and Vlad are obviously delusional. Star Wars and Empire are clearly two of the greatest American films every made. The AFI (http://www.afi.com/Docs/100Years/movies100.pdf) agrees. The prequels just make the whole franchise looks crappy by association.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Zirak wrote:
That is one of the biggest gripes I have with episodes 1-3. They had a three movie arc to craft a good story to show Anakin Skywalker's turn to the dark side. With all of that potential the best they can come up with is basically, "What would you do for a Klondike bar?"


The Clone Wars animated series did a pretty good job (although it took awhile) to lay the groundwork of why Anakin would be prone to slipping to the darkside. His over confidence in his abilities & frustration with conservative approaches of other leadership.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Diggles wrote:
Zirak wrote:
That is one of the biggest gripes I have with episodes 1-3. They had a three movie arc to craft a good story to show Anakin Skywalker's turn to the dark side. With all of that potential the best they can come up with is basically, "What would you do for a Klondike bar?"


The Clone Wars animated series did a pretty good job (although it took awhile) to lay the groundwork of why Anakin would be prone to slipping to the darkside. His over confidence in his abilities & frustration with conservative approaches of other leadership.


You shouldnt have to watch supplemental cartoons for a movie to make sense, though.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:46 pm 
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Grieve wrote:
Anyway...Jake and Vlad are obviously delusional. Star Wars and Empire are clearly two of the greatest American films every made. The AFI (http://www.afi.com/Docs/100Years/movies100.pdf) agrees. The prequels just make the whole franchise looks crappy by association.


Meh, those lists are always weighted to old crap because of it's relevance in the development of cinema. I wont deny Star Wars is relevant in the history of Cinema, but these are not the best 10 movies ever made:

1.CITIZEN KANE (1941)
2.CASABLANCA (1942)
3.GODFATHER, THE (1972)
4.GONE WITH THE WIND (1939)
5.LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (1962)
6.WIZARD OF OZ, THE (1939)
7.GRADUATE, THE (1967)
8.ON THE WATERFRONT (1954)
9.SCHINDLER'S LIST (1993)
10.SINGIN' IN THE RAIN (1952)

That list only has about a handful of things after 1982 and one of them is fucking dances with wolves.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:27 am 
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I liked Dances with Wolves better than the 1-3 Star Wars movies.

Personally, aside from age difference; I would say the break between Star Wars and StarTrek is a difference between world views.

Captain Kirk is an American. There is a Russian, Asian, Scotsman, Black Female, a multi-national crew with even an alien (Spock). And by and large all the spinoffs kept to the same formula. An American lead the team, but the team was made up of everybody.

Star Wars is different. It all happens in a galaxy far far away. They are all aliens. There are no Americans.

So if you grew up on John Wayne movies you are a natural StarTrek fan. If you think The Duke is hokie, then it is Star Wars.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:54 am 
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I don't think Jean-Luc Picard was an American.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:10 am 
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Jakensama wrote:
I don't think Jean-Luc Picard was an American.


LOL. He was supposed to be French. He just "happened" to have a British baby sitter so he had a British accent... Whatever it's the future... Deal with it...

He did sing a French climbing song in one episode.


"The Sisko" from DS9 was supposed to be an American. Considering he is a so-so diplomat and great at blowing things up, he fits the description very well. Then there is Janeway from Voyager, who no one gives a flying fuck about.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:41 pm 
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I actually imagine Star Trek is a conservative's worst nightmare. Not only are the federation a bunch of tree hugging non-interference peacenicks, but they moved the galactic capital to San Francisco.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Jakensama wrote:
tree hugging non-interference peacenicks


You've never actually watched Star Trek, I see.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:04 pm 
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Vllad wrote:
Dharus wrote:
Its a classic story of good vs evil. You put it in a space setting with things like smugglers, bounty hunters, gangsters, overbearing government, and noble freedom fighters its more "real" vs utopian ideas of future space.


Sounds good in theory but that is not the Starwars I saw.

How evil can a whinny little bitch like Anakin Skywalker be? He mostly just acts like a spoiled little kid who needs his ass slapped. He turned to the dark side over nothing. I can go with the overbearing goverment but given that they were dupped by a less than intellegent being how smart can the galaxy's leaders be?


I only speak in original trilogy. Prequels were writen by Lucus and over done. Most Star Wars fans were disappointed in how horrible the prequels were done.

As an aside: I always thought the turn was poorly written because Lucus himself was too close. His wife leaving him for an artist and all.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:13 am 
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Dharus wrote:
I only speak in original trilogy.


Ahh, well... Luke is just as whinny as his dad is. The first movie has always made me want to scratch my eyes out when Luke talks. When was the last time you have seen it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCYPOTFrr8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66jntR0MVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XyMePUidzs


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:34 am 
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I like how he sees his foster parents smoking corpses and then never mentions it again.. a few minutes later hes just excited to finally leave the planet and go on an adventure... And Leia doesnt seem to be affected all that much by the genocide of her home planet..


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Vllad wrote:
Dharus wrote:
I only speak in original trilogy.


Ahh, well... Luke is just as whinny as his dad is. The first movie has always made me want to scratch my eyes out when Luke talks. When was the last time you have seen it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCYPOTFrr8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66jntR0MVE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XyMePUidzs


Luke being a whining kid doesnt mean the universe he is in sucks.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Just that the movies set in it kinda do. As KOTOR proved, someone who isn't a hack can do some interesting stories in it (or, as most of the EU proved, a lot of poor writers can do a lot of bad fan fiction in it)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:21 pm 
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Timothy Zahn did a pretty good job writing but ya everyone else was horrible.

Same is true with Star Trek, D&D, Middle Earth, etc. If I based my liking or dislike for Middle Earth based on Hobbits then you can forget that franchise too.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:10 pm 
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Dharus wrote:
Luke being a whining kid doesnt mean the universe he is in sucks.


How can it not?

This is like saying Ed Woods characters suck in "Plan 9 from Outer Space" but the rest of the universe like Space Station 7 doesn't! That is why I asked the very first question of this thread.

Has anything Starwars ever been any good?


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