The Purge

PvP for People Who Aren't Asshats
It is currently Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:03 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:14 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4341
Vllad wrote:
Dharus wrote:
Luke being a whining kid doesnt mean the universe he is in sucks.


How can it not?

This is like saying Ed Woods characters suck in "Plan 9 from Outer Space" but the rest of the universe like Space Station 7 doesn't! That is why I asked the very first question of this thread.

Has anything Starwars ever been any good?


I've already answered that question but "good" is a matter of taste. If you don't like it, then nothing I present will change your belief. Star Wars opened up a new world of special effects which many films after copied or used Lucusfilm to wow people from then on. The Xwing/Tie fighter games were hits in the 90s. The original films surpassed much of the common landscapes and alien life with contrasting environments of various worlds and species and not just another Earth with a twist of Earth history were Nazi's took over the world. Star Wars upped the bar for Science Fiction and made it available to a world market vs niche.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:20 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 11551
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Vllad wrote:
Has anything Starwars ever been any good?


Several video games.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:38 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4341
Its like a Wizard of Oz effect. Everything was black and white and Star Wars made scf fi movies Techicolor.



vs



and this



and this



Alien is about the only sci-fi film I would rank up there with Star Wars in terms of long term significance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:44 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 11551
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Theres a difference of being significant in the development in a technology and it being an objectively good thing today.

The Model T was revolutionary, I wouldn't want to drive it today. Goes back to my original sentiment, star wars is remembered fondly because it was one of the first non B-movie sci fi adventure movies. Its like Nirvana - crappy band that everyone is nostalgic about because grunge was a point in evolution towards the indie movement today.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:51 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4341
Jakensama wrote:
Theres a difference of being significant in the development in a technology and it being an objectively good thing today.

The Model T was revolutionary, I wouldn't want to drive it today.


But the question isn't about if its good today. Vllad said "ever" good. It was pretty darn good late 70s and early 80s comparatively speaking. It still is good from a nostalgia aspect as well because it changed film making as it was considered the first modern special effects blockbuster.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:33 pm 
Offline
Hail to the King
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 10:35 am
Posts: 16965
Location: Cimmeria
That's basically what I was going after too.

Is Star Wars "good", in the sense of a really awesome story to span the ages? No.

Is Star Wars "good", in the sense of being a huge improvement over other epic sci-fi movies of the same era? Yes.


I also suggest this is why people liked 4-6 more than 1-3. 4-6 were epic within their time frame relative to other sci-fi tales of the day. 1-3 had a lot more to compete with and didn't grab us the way 4-6 did.

Kinda like every time I remember a really great series from my childhood and then I go to re-watch it. My reaction is almost always "Why the fuck did I like this?"

Oh, right, because when it's 1983 and you're 10 years old and the competition consists of "The A-Team" and "CHiPS", lots of things seemed more awesome than they really were.

_________________
If it bleeds, we can kill it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:02 pm 
Offline
Officer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:04 am
Posts: 8212
Location: Buffalo NY
Dharus wrote:
Alien is about the only sci-fi film I would rank up there with Star Wars in terms of long term significance.



I am not sure what long term significance means but their were certainly great Sci Fi movies/show before Star Wars that influenced Lucas. You make Starwars seem like everything changed for SciFi post Starwars and that isn't the case at all. Their was plenty of quality SciFi out there before Starwars.

A list-
Close Encounters, Planet of the Apes, War of the Worlds, WestWorld, Soylent Green, Omega Man, Silent Running, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, The Day the Earth Stood Still, The Thing, Outland and Alien as you mentioned. (some would put Blade Runner on this list but I wouldn't)

B list-

Logans Run, Mad Max, The Black Hole, When Worlds Collide, Journey to the Center of the Earth, 10 Millon year BC, The Time Machine, Voyage to the bottom of the Sea, and Night of the Living Dead.

TV-

Twilight Zone (which might be the most influencial TV show ever), Outer Limits, Quartermass and the Pit.


War of the Worlds which came out in 1953 is highly regarded as the most influencial Sci Fi movie of the 20th Century.

I am certainly not debating the importance of Starwars fame on SciFi but their are many other products out there that pushed forward quality SciFi. Most of the movies I listed above certainly sustained the test of time as far as quality goes. The Thing, Alien or War of the Worlds is as good today as it was then which is something Starwars certainly can't claim.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:27 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 11551
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Vllad wrote:
(some would put Blade Runner on this list but I wouldn't)


I hope not, it came out 5 years afterwards.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:59 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4341
I have no problems with your list. A lot of those are good movies and many are classic which did influence sci-fi. However Star Wars did change sci-fi too. Most of those films were more niche films. Star wars was record breaking. Its still ranked top three on movies adjusted with inflation. Star Wars changed sci-fi that way. Its like saying WOW wasnt a good MMO. Its not original with elves, dwaves etc and general mechanics/graphics. You just cant overlook the obvious.

By the way, Ridley Scott said Star Wars influenced him when he made Alien. You cant deny the Force Vllad.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:30 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:10 pm
Posts: 3678
Location: Adamstown, MD
Vllad wrote:
I am not sure what long term significance means but their were certainly great Sci Fi movies/show before Star Wars that influenced Lucas. You make Starwars seem like everything changed for SciFi post Starwars and that isn't the case at all. Their was plenty of quality SciFi out there before Starwars.

Well apart from the fact that a bunch of the movies you listed came after AFTER Star Wars, including Close Encounters, The Thing, Alien, Outland, Mad Max, and The Black Hole, I think you are missing the point. Star Wars wasn't just sci-fi, it was space opera. It was epic and huge in a way sci-fi had never been before (except maybe 2001), from the very first seconds when you see that massive star destroyer come into the screen and then keep on coming and coming and coming. I love all the movies you mentioned (and I've seen them all, mostly several times). But nothing before Star Wars was anything like it. The reason why it doesn't seem so special now is that so much that came after it WAS like it. But back then, no-one had seen it anything on that scale before.

As for Luke being whiny, c'mon, they were trying to give the guy an arc. Lucas wanted him to go from the whiny kid at the start, to the maimed and disillussioned kid at the end of Empire, to the (mostly) calm and focused Jedi at the end. Newsflash - teenagers ARE whiny. :)

_________________
Ex SWG, L2, CoH, Wow, and War
Currently PvPing in the stock market


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:34 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2003 5:10 pm
Posts: 3678
Location: Adamstown, MD
Vllad wrote:
The Thing, Alien or War of the Worlds is as good today as it was then which is something Starwars certainly can't claim.

I disagree. I love it today as much as I did then, but more importantly, a whole generation (in fact several generations) of kids love it. They weren't born when it came out. Some (like my kids) weren't even born when the prequels came out. If it doesn't hold up, why do new generations continue to love it?

And why is the new movie likely to break box office records when it comes out?

_________________
Ex SWG, L2, CoH, Wow, and War
Currently PvPing in the stock market


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:49 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 11551
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Grieve wrote:
If it doesn't hold up, why do new generations continue to love it?


While many of them prefer the new dreck to the old drek, I would imagine a big thing is their nostalgic parents push it upon them. I promise you star wars is not the same cultural thing to kids now as it was when I was growing up and the generations that were actually old enough to remember the premiers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:15 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:22 pm
Posts: 3873
Jakensama wrote:
Grieve wrote:
If it doesn't hold up, why do new generations continue to love it?


While many of them prefer the new dreck to the old drek, I would imagine a big thing is their nostalgic parents push it upon them. I promise you star wars is not the same cultural thing to kids now as it was when I was growing up and the generations that were actually old enough to remember the premiers.


I can assure you that my son didn't have Star Wars "pushed" upon him by his parents. But he thinks light sabers are awesome and likes the Clone Wars cartoons and the Star Wars Lego sets. Also, my parents have probably never seen the movies. Star Wars does a good job of entertaining in a world that young people can enjoy. The biggest difference though that I see between my "love" (not really love, but I do like it a lot) and my kids "love" of Star Wars, is I hate Jar Jar Binks, and he likes him.

_________________
TinStar
96 99 44 4 33


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:55 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 11551
Location: Brooklyn, New York
TinStar wrote:
I can assure you that my son didn't have Star Wars "pushed" upon him by his parents. But he thinks light sabers are awesome and likes the Clone Wars cartoons and the Star Wars Lego sets.


I forgot about the cartoons, so that helps with kids now too I'm sure. And light sabers are always cool. The question is will kids now grow up and still care about it, or will they remember it like I remember GI Joe and Mask and Transformers the other 80s cartoons I watched by are ultimately in my past.

Quote:
Also, my parents have probably never seen the movies.


I didn't mean parental pushing in our generation, we are still old enough for it to have still been relevant in our childhood, even if we were too young to have seen it in the theaters originally.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:44 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:44 am
Posts: 238
Location: Washington, DC
Quote:
I forgot about the cartoons, so that helps with kids now too I'm sure. And light sabers are always cool. The question is will kids now grow up and still care about it, or will they remember it like I remember GI Joe and Mask and Transformers the other 80s cartoons I watched by are ultimately in my past.


What do you mean in your past, Transformers still comes on Discovery kids, I DVR it and watch with my daughter. She loves Grimlock and the dinobots... the autobots and decepticonss she dosn't care about as much but she still watches the show. She just pays a lot closer attention and gets closer to the TV if the dinobots are in the episode.

_________________
Mistahapie - 50 Warlord or Champion <Defiant> - Faemist
Master Armorsmith / Weaponsmith
Airyth - 50 Pyromancer or Chloromancer <Defiant> - Faemist

Mistahapie - 70 <Defiant> Troll War Mannoroth
Airyth - <Defiant> 70 Troll Mage Mannoroth
Iriani <Innoruuk's Legion> 52 DE Enc - Ebay
Mistahapie Bedwetter <Defiant> 70 TR War - VZ
Airyth <Defiant> 70 DE Enc - VZ
Crinekx <Defiant> 70 Frg Wiz - VZ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:53 pm 
Offline
Officer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:04 am
Posts: 8212
Location: Buffalo NY
Grieve wrote:
Well apart from the fact that a bunch of the movies you listed came after AFTER Star Wars, including Close Encounters, The Thing, Alien, Outland, Mad Max, and The Black Hole, I think you are missing the point.


Some where released after Star Wars but started being made well before Star Wars was released in 1977.

Close Encounters came out the same year as Star Wars and started being made in 74.
The Thing came out in 1951 so that one isn't even close. You must be thinking of the re-make in 82.
Alien was enspired by The Thing and they started working on it in 1976. Filming started in late 77
The first story boards for Mad Max was in 1971
Outland story boards and models started being built in 1976


It looks like you are correct about the Black Hole. That looks to have been made after Star Wars.

I have been saying all along I am missing the point. I don't understand the appeal of Star Wars and have liked nothing the franchise has done. Nor do I understand why other people like it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:38 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:22 pm
Posts: 11551
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Airyth wrote:
What do you mean in your past, Transformers still comes on Discovery kids, I DVR it and watch with my daughter.


I mean its a thing I no longer would watch if it was on TV (unless, I was really high late at night or something), whereas for a lot of adults (and even myself on ocassion) Star Wars out-lasted my childhood. I honestly couldn't name more transformers than Optimus Primes and Bumblebee at this point in my life, whereas I still know all the names of the Star Wars characters.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:13 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4341
Vllad wrote:
Alien was enspired by The Thing and they started working on it in 1976. Filming started in late 77


Filming started in 78 and only after Star Wars was a huge hit.

Quote:
Despite the multiple rewrites, 20th Century Fox did not express confidence in financing a science-fiction film. However, after the success of Star Wars in 1977 the studio's interest in the genre rose substantially. According to Carroll: "When Star Wars came out and was the extraordinary hit that it was, suddenly science fiction became the hot genre." O'Bannon recalled that "They wanted to follow through on Star Wars, and they wanted to follow through fast, and the only spaceship script they had sitting on their desk was Alien".[15] Alien was greenlit by 20th Century Fox at an initial budget of $4.2 million.[15][27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_%28film%29

Hollywood realized that sci-fi could make money. The Thing was a great movie for its time much like War of the Worlds which is probably why it was re-released. Mad Max is and was horrible. Close Encounters I lump in with E.T. as "Disney" films. Ironic. However Close Encounters still didn't escape Star Wars...

Quote:
Visual effects[edit]
Douglas Trumbull was the visual effects supervisor, while Carlo Rambaldi designed the aliens. Trumbull joked that the visual effects budget, at $3.3 million, could have been used to produce another film [in addition to this one]. His work helped lead to advances in motion control photography. The mother ship was designed by Ralph McQuarrie and built by Greg Jein. The look of the ship was inspired by an oil refinery Spielberg saw at night in India.[4] Instead of the metallic hardware look used in Star Wars, the emphasis was on a more luminescent look for the UFOs. One of the UFO models was actually an oxygen mask with lights attached to it, used because of its irregular shape. As a subtle in-joke, Dennis Muren (who had just finished working on Star Wars) put a small R2-D2 model onto the underside of the mothership.[3] The model of the mothership is now on display in the Smithsonian Institution's Air and Space Museum Udvar-Hazy Annex at Washington Dulles Airport in Chantilly, Virginia.[3]


Quote:
Reception[edit]
The film was originally to be released in summer 1977, but was pushed back to November because of the various problems during production.[5] Upon its release, Close Encounters became a box office success, grossing $116.39 million in North America and $171.7 million in foreign countries, totaling $288 million.[22] It became Columbia Pictures' most successful film at that time.[14] Jonathan Rosenbaum refers to the film as "the best expression of Spielberg's benign, dreamy-eyed vision."[23] A.D. Murphy of Variety gave a positive review but felt "Close Encounters lacks the warmth and humanity of George Lucas's Star Wars". Murphy found most of the film slow-paced, but praised the film's climax.[24] Pauline Kael called it "a kid's film in the best sense."[7] Jean Renoir compared Spielberg's storytelling to Jules Verne and Georges Méliès.[6] Ray Bradbury declared it the greatest science fiction film ever made.[25] Based on 46 reviews collected by Rotten Tomatoes, 96% ("Certified Fresh") of the reviewers have enjoyed the film and the site's consensus states "Close Encounters' most iconic bits (the theme, the mashed-potato sculpture, etc.) have been so thoroughly absorbed into the culture that it's easy to forget that its treatment of aliens as peaceful beings rather than warmongering monsters was somewhat groundbreaking in 1977."[26]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:15 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 1012
Location: Canandaigua, New York
Mad Max. The first trailer was meh...but this one! Oh boy. Watch on big screen with volume up.



Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 69 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group