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 Post subject: PvE gear VS. PvP gear
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:44 pm 
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Games always have two sets of gear no matter what game you are playing.

PvE - found in dungeons and on world mobs and gained by quest.
PvP - found by generally killing the other faction and gained by quest/influence/tokens towards PvP goals.

Some people find that PvE gear in most games is overpowered compared to PvP gear.

Perhaps there could be two player windows. One for PvE gear and one for PvP gear.

When you go dungeon grinding, all your stats contributing to that is your pve gear. A piece of PvE gear will never be able to be equipped in a PvP slot. The gear will have a label on it 'PvE'
and vise versa;
When you go pvping all your stats contributing to that is pvp gear. A piece of PvP gear will never be able to be equipped in a PvE slot. The gear will have a label on it 'PvP'.

This way there will be no bitching and complaining that the guys who grind dungeons are overpowered when it comes to PvP. This is also a way to keep people playing the game, two different types of gear to get.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:53 pm 
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Pretty much what wow has had for a while. Shit, with dual specs now (so you can switch between pvp and pve sets) its like 2 different games that just happen to share a common chat room (the main world).


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:56 pm 
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That's certainly a solution in the near term but in the distant future there ought to be a better solution. The reason there is a divide between pve and pvp gear ultimately is because artificial intelligence is mmogs is still stupid compared to human intelligence. The real solution to the gear divide is to make the computer smarter.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Haha, goes to show you long ago I had played WoW.

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Kakarat Keys ~ Thief ~ Guild Wars 2
Kakarat ~ Shaman ~ WoW ~
Kakarat ~ Witch Hunter ~ WAR:AoR
Riona ~ Knight of the Blazing Sun ~ WAR:AoR
Kakarat ~ Swashbuckler ~ EQ2 ~ Venekor
Eef Eigten[F-18]~ 60 Aracoix Rogue ~ Shadowbane
Kakarat ~ 60 Ogre Warrior ~ EQ ~ VZ


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:55 pm 
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What Hoof said.

To some extent it's just a pitfall of RPGs wanting to follow a theme. If all you're fighting are frogloks that mostly just melee you, then you mostly need good AC. The narrowly defined NPCs let you tailor your stats and skills just for them at the expense of sucking against players, who won't have such a narrowly defined attack or defense.

The closer you can get to creating NPCs that have all the powers and play by all the rules of players, the less need there should be to distinguish "PvP gear" from "PvE gear".

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:16 pm 
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Slamz wrote:
What Hoof said.

To some extent it's just a pitfall of RPGs wanting to follow a theme. If all you're fighting are frogloks that mostly just melee you, then you mostly need good AC. The narrowly defined NPCs let you tailor your stats and skills just for them at the expense of sucking against players, who won't have such a narrowly defined attack or defense.

The closer you can get to creating NPCs that have all the powers and play by all the rules of players, the less need there should be to distinguish "PvP gear" from "PvE gear".


Then essentially the healer would tank the boss! General Rule of thumb is go for the healers. The fact that a Boss is kitting your group with snares and ranged attacks would be rather silly.

The mechanic of hate generated would have to be redefined.

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Kakarat Keys ~ Thief ~ Guild Wars 2
Kakarat ~ Shaman ~ WoW ~
Kakarat ~ Witch Hunter ~ WAR:AoR
Riona ~ Knight of the Blazing Sun ~ WAR:AoR
Kakarat ~ Swashbuckler ~ EQ2 ~ Venekor
Eef Eigten[F-18]~ 60 Aracoix Rogue ~ Shadowbane
Kakarat ~ 60 Ogre Warrior ~ EQ ~ VZ


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:37 pm 
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Yeah, for sure. Mobs should try to weigh targets the way players do.

In Champions, for example, sometimes you avoid the healer because he's too damn hard to kill. In that case you look for the squishy guy that you can burn down faster than the healer can save.

e.g., it seems like a fairly simply NPC AI could do this:

1) Bang on target.
2) Is his health going down?
3) If so, keep banging.
4) If not, look for another target, preferably a healer.
5) Goto 1

Or like the "tank" should be the guy with the roots and snares. The NPC might be fully aware that someone else is a better target but simply can't *reach* him because this "tank" is restricting his movement. He attacks the tank not because of some artificial "agro" but simply because there may be no other choice.

Now if he can somehow lock down or escape the tank, then he'd probably do what any player would do: find the squishiest target and go straight for him.

It would make for a much more dynamic battle and it seems to me that the AI for this wouldn't have to be terribly complicated. In the end, a good PvP team and a good PvE team would ideally have similar compositions, skills and gear.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:46 pm 
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You have to move completely away from the holy trinity as we have discussed in other threads in this section. See the other threads on any number of ways to see improvements in that area.

Tanking, Healing, Crowd Control need to be destroyed in order for AI to move forward.

Vllad


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