The Purge

PvP for People Who Aren't Asshats
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 Post subject: Re: Put into practice?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:29 am 
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That game idea sounds like fun Slamz - make it happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Put into practice?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Slamz wrote:
I think a game of Trade Wars meets Gratuitous Space Battles meets EVE could solve a lot of really hard problems that plague other MMOGs. Dunno what the appeal would be like but *I* like it!


In some ways this sounds like Sins of a Solar Empire in a persistant world with lots of people or just EVE with better combat system. I'm not sure if that'll work. Simply having fleets available to a person can cause gameplay and balance issues. I was talking with my programmer friend about the space concept and how Star Citizen might just swallow up the "space" gaming groups out there if they add the stuff I've heard about. Shooting for a deep persistant universe with crewable carriers, snub fighters that can launch off your ship by friends, etc is going be very attractive. I'm not a fan of warpgate like mechanic space games though and I wish they'd go to jump drives with limitations. Anyways, that game might be what gives you that fix.

In some ways I like the fantasy game mechanic idea more. It ties a person to a character and you want them to live. Having a fleet of ships that are replaceable doesn't really give that same feeling. Granted, you can do this also with a space game: be a in survivor's ship, dodge stuff, scavange, and gain points, but I feel that the fantasy setting, being so familiar, would be more interesting. Getting enough points to respawn into a fledgling dragon that needs to survive for a LONG time to become powerful while dodging NPC parties is recongizeable versus respawning into a space battleship doing similar things.


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 Post subject: Re: Put into practice?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Biggest problem with fantasy, IMO, is the graphics. That's what makes spaceships so attractive. Sooo much less to worry about with animations (not to mention terrain). Fantasy will add oodles of overhead in graphics design, level design and animation.

I don't think player balance with fleets is necessarily worse than any other form of balancing. Adding ships to your fleet isn't necessarily different than having one ship with upgrades.

Any player progression is going to have to solve the balance problem. If anything, I like the fleet idea because you can create limits like "30 ships per battle" so that the guy with 3000 ships doesn't have such a huge advantage over the guy with 300 ships. Finding ways to do the same thing with a level 80 vs a level 3 or a Type VI Phaser vs Type I Phaser seems harder.

I do like the "Natural Selection" type systems where I'm controlling a fleet but really some or all of my fleet is controlled by players. That seems like an extra level of technical difficulty, though, basically supporting two completely different views and control systems into the game world.

Of course it could be more like Starcraft co-op. It's all my fleet but I can dole out control of parts of it to other players. In that case the fleet isn't really "me"; it's "The Purge".

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 Post subject: Re: Put into practice?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Multi person roles actually doesn't seem hard. It's about assigning the code to say "this person sees this". It's about camera location for a user. The model doesn't change. Think about potbs, you can have ships that are npcs or players. The only difference is the control input to the model.

I agree about animations though but each setting has its thing. Space is three dimensions and players move freely around it. Though that's not hard but you have to design all around. With a planet you create on a plane and players more or less move on that plane.

The problem I see with 30v30 battles is that it works best instanced. So you also get away from sandbox gameplay and it becomes like a potbs port battle. Then you have to work on which ships get pulled in and which don't. That's some coding. In a single person/character model it seems easier. So the trade off is coding vs animation. From what I've played with in Unity I'd rather go animation and then code to one character model. Make sense?


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 Post subject: Re: Put into practice?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:09 pm 
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So, after a few months of messing around with Unity and Blender here and there I've done a few novice things. There are some great tutorials out there on learning this stuff. However, during my reading I stumbled one the SWGEmu project to emulate SWG to Pre-CU. Curiosity got to me and I started reading up on their development process. Its amazing what Sony didn't do with this game really. Lots of things that would have been easy implementations for experienced developers were not done. Two planets which are in the client side software were never added (Tanaab and Hoth) and various species were modeled and can be used for players. So, in short, I've switch my "hobby" over to working up a standalone mod version of this game. Right now, I'm reading up on server and development platform.

Once I've setup the development environment I plan to play around with a few things that SWG had:

1) Species - add all of the species that can be added (seems like its at least 6 more).
2) Factions - They messed with a 3rd faction for the Galatic Civil War (part of it is coded) but never really expanded it.
3) Factions part 2 - The game has more than the two major factions. I want to look into the PvP code and the minor faction code to see what can be manipulated. Remember, TEFs (temp enemy flags) were coded so the client side software (with a little tweeking) might be able to expand the PvP. Ultimately, I'd like to see an open PvP system but penalties for "mindless" killing.
4) New world development - Two worlds are already setup in places. Currently several people have gotten Tanaab playable with missions, resources, etc. They are sort of streamlining to make world creation possible.

My goal for the next few months is the server and development environment. There is a lot that's already been done that I'm reading up on. I'm not in a rush as the SWGEmu project is working on a lot of coding to get the emulation to publish 14.1. I'll probably image something over though and mess with the things above. I hope by the projects release, I'll be able to mod those files into something interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Put into practice?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:26 pm 
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I was intrigued by the SWG EMU project too. I would like to see is a SWG server that just completely removed the ability to be Covert (turn your pvp flag off). That was the most annoying thing to me in SWG PvP - That I was a stormtrooper and was staring right at a KNOWN REBEL that came to our city and because he simply clicked a button on his character sheet to go "Covert", he was immune to being shot in the face by my carbine.

I think SWG could have been a good game if it had been a PvP wargame from the ground-up. Your "open PvP system but penalties for "mindless" killing." probably would be solved just by a system where it was just a stupid move to fly to a planet controlled by the opposing faction and start running around. I can't think of a situation where a Stormtrooper shooting a rebel in the head would be considered "Mindless Killing" =)

Everything else in SWG I honestly thought lended well to a wargame:
- The economy system (prospecting/gathering/crafting/NPC-merchant) of SWG is, IMO, the best crafting/economy system that we have ever seen in ANY MMO before or after. Equipment wore out requiring crafters to keep their factories churning out blasters and armor. In a wargame, the best equipment would be to who controlled a certain deposit of metal. Maybe guild ABC has awesome blasters because they have access to high-conductivity copper, and maybe guild XYZ has awesome armor because their area has iron with a high hardness. Guild MNOP has pretty crappy equipment, but since they set up a city near a lair of Mutant Wumprats, their bio-engineers turn out super awesome stimpacks so their Combat Medics and Doctors are the best in the galaxy.
- Player built cities that could be attacked by the enemy faction. I think this would need to be expanded to include more defenses and things that could be destroyed. If memory serves, the original SWG only had one building that was attackable - the base thingy that you bought with faction points.


I might check out their project and maybe even offer some help to you in getting a fun server customized and playable.


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 Post subject: Re: Put into practice?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:02 am 
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I was thinking more outside of the current GCW design. More wild west style with people who are neutral also being able to be killed. Then coding "coverts" to appear as neutral is only a matter of appearance. Only thing that would save you in a city from being killed is the stormtrooper, security force, rebel guards AI. So, technically, you could be your our faction and where guilds would be the only saving grace from others (maybe). Artisans would have a tough time I think.

The problem I see from this is the built-in grind for xp. Its a huge grind and going afk macroing would leave people open to PKing. Not a bad thing in my mind but it would be pretty hardcore (and tedious) to level. The other thing I think could be modded is corpse looting. I remember early days of corpse running and some permissions allowing others to get your stuff.

PS I should also like to implement the player bounty system. Not sure how all this could fit in. I'll have to look through the coding. Should it go FFA or faction pvp and how would bounties fit? I know some people are looking at the faction code and I'm following it closely.


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