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 Post subject: The Rifle Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Rounding up a lot of past gun talk:

Essentials are coming down to
1. Shotgun
2. Rifle
3. Sidearm

I'm pretty clear on which shot guns and hand guns I like now (I've been shooting 12 gages and I'm going to try out more handguns at the range).

For the shotgun: Remington 870 or Mossberg 500
For the sidearm: Glock 17 or Sig P226
For the rifle: ???

Thudz/Anyone

Help me digest some of what I'm reading at the Weatherby, Remington and Bushmaster sites. What are your recommendations for rifles? The primary purpose would be long range hunting, i.e. the animal can't even smell me from that far away. I want to be able to add a scope, take down big stuff, i.e. deer and larger (assume I'll be hunting little stuff with the shotgun), and have a rifle that's not too expensive.

The rifle Thudz posted doesn't seem to be made anymore (at least by that name) on the Weatherby site and I assume that's a really expensive one anyway.

Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:16 pm 
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is it legal to own one of these puppies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Breand wrote:
is it legal to own one of these puppies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12


Yes. Simple semi-auto 12 gauge. Almost bought one earlier this year but decided on the pump action 870.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:29 pm 
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I'll reply to your post Dustie a little later. Kinda slammed at work right now.

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Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Thudz wrote:
Breand wrote:
is it legal to own one of these puppies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12


Yes. Simple semi-auto 12 gauge. Almost bought one earlier this year but decided on the pump action 870.


It wasn't until the instructor handed me a semi-automatic shotgun that I found out they were even legal. It was nice to do the double clay pulls without having to pump, but they're a lot more expensive.

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"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:34 pm 
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To be honest, though I love the Moss 500, I have ALWAYS loved the Ruger P-85. 9mm is a bit, well, light..but I don't feel it's too light for home security.
It's heavy, but built like a tank.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:52 pm 
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Riz wrote:
To be honest, though I love the Moss 500, I have ALWAYS loved the Ruger P-85. 9mm is a bit, well, light..but I don't feel it's too light for home security.
It's heavy, but built like a tank.


Do you have a problem with the Remington 870 or do you think it's comparable to the Moss 500?

As far as the pistol, my main concern is reliability and backup. Ideally, it never comes out unless one of my other weapons jams. For example, the semi auto shotgun I was using last time jammed twice in 50 rounds. I was kind of upset by that. I didn't like those odds.

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"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:59 pm 
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Dustie wrote:
Riz wrote:
To be honest, though I love the Moss 500, I have ALWAYS loved the Ruger P-85. 9mm is a bit, well, light..but I don't feel it's too light for home security.
It's heavy, but built like a tank.


Do you have a problem with the Remington 870 or do you think it's comparable to the Moss 500?

As far as the pistol, my main concern is reliability and backup. Ideally, it never comes out unless one of my other weapons jams. For example, the semi auto shotgun I was using last time jammed twice in 50 rounds. I was kind of upset by that. I didn't like those odds.


That is the issue with Semi-Auto shotguns, failure to feed. You usually can't use reduced recoil shells in them and typically target shells are reduced recoil.

Based on your criteria I'd say look for something in a .30-06.

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
-Thomas Jefferson

Spread my work ethic not my wealth.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:15 pm 
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Ya know, I have heard that about Semi-Auto shotguns but in the 16 years I have been shooting it I have never had a problem with my father's Remington 1100 jamming or failing to feed and we use it a lot.

As for a hunting rifle, nothing beats a good 30-06 to reach out and touch something from half a mile away. Just like Thudz said. Just remember, having a good gun is one thing but you need to have a good scope as well, and know how to use both.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:33 pm 
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Jodah wrote:
Ya know, I have heard that about Semi-Auto shotguns but in the 16 years I have been shooting it I have never had a problem with my father's Remington 1100 jamming or failing to feed and we use it a lot.

As for a hunting rifle, nothing beats a good 30-06 to reach out and touch something from half a mile away. Just like Thudz said. Just remember, having a good gun is one thing but you need to have a good scope as well, and know how to use both.


Good maintenance and lubricating goes a long way, plus the 1100 is a nice shotgun.

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
-Thomas Jefferson

Spread my work ethic not my wealth.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Ok, so we're talking .30-06 rifle. Any makes and models in mind?

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"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:02 pm 
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There's only one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:04 pm 
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Hoofhurr wrote:
There's only one.


huh? help.

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"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:04 pm 
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Dustie wrote:
Ok, so we're talking .30-06 rifle. Any makes and models in mind?


Check out the Savage Model 111F. It's very affordable and I've heard good things. A good scope will run you a few hundred as well.

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
-Thomas Jefferson

Spread my work ethic not my wealth.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:08 pm 
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Thudz wrote:
Dustie wrote:
Ok, so we're talking .30-06 rifle. Any makes and models in mind?


Check out the Savage Model 111F. It's very affordable and I've heard good things. A good scope will run you a few hundred as well.


Ok, I just found this:
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_SPS.asp

I'll go find that.

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"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Personally my first choice would be Savage and my second Remington,but quit frankly there are a lot of good choices. I learned the hard way that the more critical choice is the scope. When you consider the total investment in a lease, gas, rifle etc..... a few more dollars for a reliable scope is cheap insurance. My first choice would be a Leupold and you couldn't pay me to take a Simmons or BSA. Also depending on the type of hunting you will be doing all else being equal a fixed power will always be more reliable. Also, if you are hunting in heavy brush for hogs or any other situation where you may need a quick follow up shot you may consider a pump action. My buddy has Remington pump in .30-06. I shot that rifle a while back and got sub MOA groupls with it.

Pilfered from various google sites. Good shit.

p.s. shit I want to go shooting.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:13 pm 
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Hoofhurr wrote:
Personally my first choice would be Savage and my second Remington,but quit frankly there are a lot of good choices. I learned the hard way that the more critical choice is the scope. When you consider the total investment in a lease, gas, rifle etc..... a few more dollars for a reliable scope is cheap insurance. My first choice would be a Leupold and you couldn't pay me to take a Simmons or BSA. Also depending on the type of hunting you will be doing all else being equal a fixed power will always be more reliable. Also, if you are hunting in heavy brush for hogs or any other situation where you may need a quick follow up shot you may consider a pump action. My buddy has Remington pump in .30-06. I shot that rifle a while back and got sub MOA groupls with it.

Pilfered from various google sites. Good shit.

p.s. shit I want to go shooting.


lol

I've been trying to pilfer stuff on rimfire vs centerfire. Is this going to be a beta vs VHS war? It seems center fire gives your more options?

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"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Dustie wrote:
Hoofhurr wrote:
Personally my first choice would be Savage and my second Remington,but quit frankly there are a lot of good choices. I learned the hard way that the more critical choice is the scope. When you consider the total investment in a lease, gas, rifle etc..... a few more dollars for a reliable scope is cheap insurance. My first choice would be a Leupold and you couldn't pay me to take a Simmons or BSA. Also depending on the type of hunting you will be doing all else being equal a fixed power will always be more reliable. Also, if you are hunting in heavy brush for hogs or any other situation where you may need a quick follow up shot you may consider a pump action. My buddy has Remington pump in .30-06. I shot that rifle a while back and got sub MOA groupls with it.

Pilfered from various google sites. Good shit.

p.s. shit I want to go shooting.


lol

I've been trying to pilfer stuff on rimfire vs centerfire. Is this going to be a beta vs VHS war? It seems center fire gives your more options?


Centerfire is much more common. The difference between centerfire and rimfire is where the primer is located on the base of the cartridge. On a rimfire it's on the rim and on a centerfire it's in the center, duh.

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
-Thomas Jefferson

Spread my work ethic not my wealth.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:23 pm 
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Quote:
Jeez, that's like asking "Who makes the best stereo?", or "Who makes the best pickup?". But I would have to say Savage, IMHO.


That sold me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Thudz wrote:
Dustie wrote:
Hoofhurr wrote:
Personally my first choice would be Savage and my second Remington,but quit frankly there are a lot of good choices. I learned the hard way that the more critical choice is the scope. When you consider the total investment in a lease, gas, rifle etc..... a few more dollars for a reliable scope is cheap insurance. My first choice would be a Leupold and you couldn't pay me to take a Simmons or BSA. Also depending on the type of hunting you will be doing all else being equal a fixed power will always be more reliable. Also, if you are hunting in heavy brush for hogs or any other situation where you may need a quick follow up shot you may consider a pump action. My buddy has Remington pump in .30-06. I shot that rifle a while back and got sub MOA groupls with it.

Pilfered from various google sites. Good shit.

p.s. shit I want to go shooting.


lol

I've been trying to pilfer stuff on rimfire vs centerfire. Is this going to be a beta vs VHS war? It seems center fire gives your more options?


Centerfire is much more common. The difference between centerfire and rimfire is where the primer is located on the base of the cartridge. On a rimfire it's on the rim and on a centerfire it's in the center, duh.


Let me also add the rimfire requires the casing to be somewhat thin which means usually lower calibers like .22.

_________________
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
-Thomas Jefferson

Spread my work ethic not my wealth.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Thudz wrote:
Thudz wrote:
Dustie wrote:
Hoofhurr wrote:
Personally my first choice would be Savage and my second Remington,but quit frankly there are a lot of good choices. I learned the hard way that the more critical choice is the scope. When you consider the total investment in a lease, gas, rifle etc..... a few more dollars for a reliable scope is cheap insurance. My first choice would be a Leupold and you couldn't pay me to take a Simmons or BSA. Also depending on the type of hunting you will be doing all else being equal a fixed power will always be more reliable. Also, if you are hunting in heavy brush for hogs or any other situation where you may need a quick follow up shot you may consider a pump action. My buddy has Remington pump in .30-06. I shot that rifle a while back and got sub MOA groupls with it.

Pilfered from various google sites. Good shit.

p.s. shit I want to go shooting.


lol

I've been trying to pilfer stuff on rimfire vs centerfire. Is this going to be a beta vs VHS war? It seems center fire gives your more options?


Centerfire is much more common. The difference between centerfire and rimfire is where the primer is located on the base of the cartridge. On a rimfire it's on the rim and on a centerfire it's in the center, duh.


Let me also add the rimfire requires the casing to be somewhat thin which means usually lower calibers like .22.


Ok, so I'm going to take rimfire and put it on the no list. (I essentially did that already when I saw that most companies have 10% rimfire, and 90% centerfire rifles.

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"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:37 am 
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ya, plus you cant handload rimfire cartridges if you were to make your ammo, correct?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:39 am 
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I agree that the .30-06 is your best option for now, but we need to educate you just a bit on guns so that you get to buy more and suffer less wife aggro.

.30-06 is your fine white tail, mule deer gun. but you need to explain to the wife that if you are going to go out west sometime and hunt antelope you will need a .243 or similar for a bit more range and flatter shooting trajectory. if you are going farther west and hunt Elk, you will need something with a bit more knock down power like a .338 and of course for practice to save on ammo when you are just plinking you will need a .22 after you decide you want to do a little serious target practice that will require another gun all together.

to not forget, inflate the price to whatever number is just below her going ballistic. you are going to need money for scopes, and they are not cheap; plus when you report back that you spent far less than what you expected it will make her as happy as buying shoes on sale.

*note the alternative of this is having some of your own squirrel hole money, but that can end badly.

also the same method can be used for shotguns. if you hunt geese or turkey you might need a 10ga. i would never use my quail gun to go duck hunting even though they are both 12ga. and my trap gun is not the same as my sporting clays gun.

my .30-06 is a made in England Birmingham Small Arms about 40 years old with a fixed 4x Leupold scope. (yes, BSA is the same company that made the English motorcycles) shot my first deer with it over 30 years ago.

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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:59 am 
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bonestomper wrote:
.30-06 is your fine white tail, mule deer gun. but you need to explain to the wife that if you are going to go out west sometime and hunt antelope you will need a .243 or similar for a bit more range and flatter shooting trajectory. if you are going farther west and hunt Elk, you will need something with a bit more knock down power like a .338 and of course for practice to save on ammo when you are just plinking you will need a .22 after you decide you want to do a little serious target practice that will require another gun all together.


So the .30-06 only takes you up to white tails? Is the .243 a monster in comparison?

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"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:05 pm 
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If you could have just one rifle to slay varmints, hunt white-tails, shoot paper at long range, and duel in tactical matches, it would be hard to beat the .243 Winchester. This versatile "little brother" of the .308 Winchester is a true triple-threat as a match cartridge, varmint cartridge, and game cartridge. With 115gr DTAC bullets, a .243 rivals a 6.5-284 ballistically out to 1000 yards. Shooting 80-100 grain hunting bullets, a .243 will anchor a buck with authority. Driving the light 55-75 grain pills, the .243 provides the flat trajectory and high impact energy varminters love. As a tactical round, the .243 is one of the best, offering excellent ballistics, moderate recoil, and stone-reliable feeding from a detachable magazine.


SOLD!

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