Caprica

[OrsunVZ]

My entire time in the military was spent with nothing but stoic types. Having seen many horrible things in my time in the military people become less emotional during tough times not more. Emotional extremes prevent people from being able to do their jobs. This is not to say people don't break. They do. However when that happens they are no longer able to do their jobs.

If you can't keep it in check you are removed.

BSG is not realistic at all. Humans do not bevaive that way under extreme stress successfully.


Vllad

Absofriggin'lutely...

Hell even at work, the last two years have been absolute hell, and its been 2 years of hanging on by our fingernails. It's been a progressively tougher, and if I was handed 2 years ago what I've been handed in the last two months, I'd have been a cheerio-crybaby myself. After the first two seasons of total death and destruction, he'd be even more hardened. And like has been said, if the dude snaps, then he's done, pure and simple.

But I will say this... this is a thread I plan on making sure my wife or her friends never see, because jesus christ we're dorks... I would NEVER hear the end of it.

[Skaag]

Funny enough, this discussion came to mind while watching some cheesey Warhammer 40k videos on Youtube.

Minus the low budget, poor acting, and bad camera usage, it was entertaining to watch them attempt at putting the lore into Live Action. That was until the last video, which had me shaking my head. You see a Space Marine Captain get his hand shot and fall over, crying like a baby and unable to go on... For the rest of the video all I wanted to see was a bolter put through his head and all our suffering ended.

I understand what Jake is trying to say here and why in some regards it is refreshing to see characters in shows portrayed as more "human", than always being larger than life super heroes. But I have to agree with what Vllad and others have said to a degree. If he broke down this much, he would be removed from command.

However, I also find it rather closed minded to define a man by how stoic he can be. There are so many other qualities and characteristics that can make a man, be a man. To try and define it to such a narrow label really loses sight of how different and unique we can be as humans. In some ways making us closed minded to the truth of human nature and unable to understand those who do not share you same views or beliefs.

I would be curious to hear how people on this board would define, "being a real woman". I imagine the definition would be much more varied and broad. Because as men, we are more likely told early on what we are expected to be as men. While we are free to develop our own interpretations of women based on many different experiences and relationships with women as we grow up.

[Hoofhurr]

Ahh human psychology. I've read some interesting studies that show that people who can convince themselves that they will always win or who are really good at blocking out the possibility of losing actually perform better than those people who entertain the possibility of losing. Stoic personalities most likely incorporate similar aspects of self-deception which makes them look like heroes if they actually do win and like inflexible, unadaptive idiots if they end up losing.

This is a fascinating dichotomy of self-perception that I believe is central to people's personalities. I think a lot of political arguments stem from certain personalities being more capable of self-deception than others. Some people try to include as many possibilities as possible in their analysis while other try to eliminate as many as possible. Which one are you?

I definitely fall into the 'possibillionaire' category where there are billion possibilities to explain a particular phenomenon. I think most people oversimplify reality and I'm forever evaluating all the consequences of my actions before taking any. I would think the people on the other side of the coin readily discount as much as possible and act as quickly as they can and deal with the consequences afterwards.

I think a lot of people that may be defined as stoic think about things in terms of black and white, live by strict codes and develop rigorous habits that contextualize reality very neatly and make "decision making" very easy. Reality of course is much more complex but considering all the possibilities before acting is not usually the best way to survive something.

[Dustie]

Ahh human psychology. I've read some interesting studies that show that people who can convince themselves that they will always win or who are really good at blocking out the possibility of losing actually perform better than those people who entertain the possibility of losing. Stoic personalities most likely incorporate similar aspects of self-deception which makes them look like heroes if they actually do win and like inflexible, unadaptive idiots if they end up losing.

This is a fascinating dichotomy of self-perception that I believe is central to people's personalities. I think a lot of political arguments stem from certain personalities being more capable of self-deception than others. Some people try to include as many possibilities as possible in their analysis while other try to eliminate as many as possible. Which one are you?

I definitely fall into the 'possibillionaire' category where there a billion possibilities to explain a particular phenomenon. I think most people oversimplify reality and I'm forever evaluating all the consequences of my actions before taking any. I would think the people on the other side of the coin readily discount as much as possible and act as quickly as they can and deal with the consequences afterwards.

I think a lot of people that may be defined as stoic think about things in terms of black and white, live by strict codes and develop rigorous habits that contextualize reality very neatly and make "decision making" very easy. Reality of course is much more complex but considering all the possibilities before acting is not usually the best way to survive something.

I'm like you. I've been trying for about 3 years to become a better decision maker. It's really tough. I always thought "executive summaries" were made because executives were stupid. As it turns out, I now realize that they're made to facilitate decision making. No one can make decisions based on ten thousand facts, but we can make decisions based on 7 facts. And to tie it all in, I think Adama limited his decision making choices by drinking.

[Slamz]

However, I also find it rather closed minded to define a man by how stoic he can be.

We've been slinging the term "man" around a lot, but it's really more about being a "commander". Baltar was a piece of shit from the start to the end. It doesn't really bother me because he was basically just weak-in-the-knees jerkwad who you didn't really expect anything of. Adama I expected more of, and they had him in that role for the first couple seasons.


I do agree that "there's more to it than just being stoic". Plenty of bad guys are stoic, too. The captain of the Pegasus was stoic, to the point of being a murderous bitch. Her getting shot was a highlight of the show. Basically, they undermined so many characters, my feeling is they could have at least left us with one stoic good guy. Just one. You've got a couple dozen characters, just give us one guy who doesn't quit his job, beat his wife, blow people out of airlocks, drink themselves into a stupor, commit suicide, lie habitually or die and come back crazy.

Just...one!


Everyone remembers phrases like, "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" Nobody gets famous for saying, "Oh Jesus fuck it's fucking torpedoes! My life is in ruins! *sob* Why doesn't anyone love me?"


Except that guy from Aliens, of course.

People like him are useful to highlight the stoicism of everyone else. Characters like him give stoic characters good lines, like, "Just deal with it, Hudson, I'm tired of your bullshit."

[Hoofhurr]

I'm like you. I've been trying for about 3 years to become a better decision maker. It's really tough. I always thought "executive summaries" were made because executives were stupid. As it turns out, I now realize that they're made to facilitate decision making. No one can make decisions based on ten thousand facts, but we can make decisions based on 7 facts. And to tie it all in, I think Adama limited his decision making choices by drinking.

Well I operate in different modes. If the situation demands action I'm pretty good at limiting the brainstorming window and getting a move on. When I'm in debate mode the ideas are endless and I'm the eternal skeptic and question everything. When it comes to making life decisions I spend way too much time thinking about it, get distracted, and play video games.

I didn't follow BSG very closely but it seemed to me that Adama's self-confidence was shattered due to a or a series of traumatic events. His ability to bounce back and command is linked to his military rigor which probably eroded overtime in his position as the supreme military authority with no one to answer to but himself.

[Vllad]

I think a lot of people that may be defined as stoic think about things in terms of black and white, live by strict codes and develop rigorous habits that contextualize reality very neatly and make "decision making" very easy.

You mean like military personal.


Vllad

[Vllad]

However, I also find it rather closed minded to define a man by how stoic he can be. There are so many other qualities and characteristics that can make a man, be a man.

It certainly doesn't define you as a father or husband but is sure as heck does as a soldier. Which is really what we are talking about.

[Vanraw]

This is Stoic

[Dustie]

1 Demerit for Maul.

[OrsunVZ]

jesus christ that just made me laugh out loud in an office fulled of stressed out people... I don't even have an excuse to give... "yeah yeah you caught me pissing away some time on teh internets, leemealone!!!"

[Dustie]

This is Stoic

Which is more stoic?

[Jakensama]

, but they were never on the bridge of the ship or out in the hallways with a bucket of paint

Wasn't he in his bunk with the paint? Thats what I remember seeing, but I am a drunk. If he was in the hall doing it I might have to actually start siding with you on this.

[Fretty]

As I recall, Picard has his breakdown moments, but they were never on the bridge of the ship or out in the hallways with a bucket of paint (well, excluding direct alien mental intervention, anyway).

I'm pretty sure that painting scene took place in his personal quarters, no?

[Slamz]

I thought for sure it was in a corridor, right as he walked through a doorway and around a corner and saw a can of paint on the ground. Granted there were no people around but I remember thinking, "He's going to get some funny looks on the way back to his room."



Also, what do you think? Obama vs Putin? Cage match?

[Slamz]

Ah yes, here we go:




I don't think that's his quarters.


Here's another angle:




Man, Google has everything.

[Staracker]

the problem with john wayne type characters is they start out stoic, stay stoic and you never really get to understand how they got that way in the first place. I would like to see a movie where the hero starts out either kinda wimpy/unsure/hesitant etc, and through the various ordeals, develops into a stoic character. kinda of like george lucas did with anakin skywalker. IMO it helps knowing how this person came to be. not that he is what he is. I can see jake's point about stress wearing people down, and granted that can happen but usually someone else will step up, if they dont then you have disaster. I stopped watching BSG for various reasons, i grew up with the original series and the new BSG was just too alien, light speed drives(far ahead of our technology, yet using gunpowder ammunition...missiles etc which killed the Sci-fi and made it look like contemporary combat. characters that just fell apart, dont think any of the original characters managed to survive the series without self destructing in someway. have you ever been in a school/workplace etc and saw everyone break down? even when devastating news is unleashed, colombine/challenger/columbia/oklahoma city bombing, 9/11 et all, wasnt there anyone around you that was able to keep it together or did everyone just open the flood gates and sobbed uncontrollably? if it doesnt happen in real life, its hard to portray that kind of behavior in a script, no matter the format, sci-fi/fantasy/action etc, the characters still have to show real emotions or lack of emotions to be credible considering their position/ordeal they are going through etc. a military leader will have endured ordeals and scenarios while rising through the ranks, if you can imagine colin powell, gen schwarzkoff (sp) breaking down from any situation, i think you are mistaken.

[Vanraw]

1 Demerit for Maul.

Hey all my republican friends love that bush photochop. It says, You think this job is easy!! oh yea and for all you fuckers that kept saying Cheney was in charge, Here you you go!!

[Fretty]

Ah yes, here we go:




I don't think that's his quarters.


Here's another angle:




Man, Google has everything.

You had me curious so I had to verify it for myself by rewatching that scene (I have the entire series on my computer). 3 seconds before that scene, literally, they show Adama open the door to enter the commanders quarters (labled "Commander" on the outside, which the camera focuses in on). After he enters he quickly makes his way into that separate room which is being renovated, sees the bucket, and the rest is BSG/Adama history.

[Slamz]

Oh okay, I missed the sign. (His quarters have a second room?!)

[Jakensama]

kinda of like george lucas did with anakin skywalker. .

Step 1 - get a shitty actor
Step 2 - have him deficate on a generation's childhood memories
Step 3 - profit

[Staracker]

at least it gave the viewer answers to why darth vader is the uncaring, ruthless powermonger he was in the first 3 movies, IE episodes 4-6. could it of been done better? yes not arguing that point, trying to illustrate the need for character depth. now if adama had broken down in the first episode once he learned of the massive destruction then pulled himself back up and decided to just kick ass and take names out of vengence, think most could agree it would of made his character more identifiable with. somehow i couldnt picture admiral kain breaking down like that (granted it doesnt show her history over 4 seasons) but regardless, she is a woman and still had bigger balls then adama at times.

[Hoofhurr]

To be fair you have a picture of obama playing in the ocean and he's probably smiling at his two baby girls. =P. If I showed you a picture of Bush blowing lines in a bathroom stall you wouldn't be calling him stoic.

The picture is funny though. :lol: Putin is just a scary fucker. Would you elect a CIA operative to run your country? I'd wonder about any CIA agent that wanted to run the country.

[Hoofhurr]

I think a lot of people that may be defined as stoic think about things in terms of black and white, live by strict codes and develop rigorous habits that contextualize reality very neatly and make "decision making" very easy.

You mean like military personal.


Vllad

Yes! But also CEOs and Professional Coaches etc. How historically accurate do you guys think the battle speeches you see in movies are? e.g. Braveheart. This is the opposite of stoicism in my view.

[Moristans]

I would like to see a movie where the hero starts out either kinda wimpy/unsure/hesitant etc, and through the various ordeals, develops into a stoic character. kinda of like george lucas did with anakin skywalker.

And Luke Skywalker, and Han Solo, and Lando Calrissian, and Jar Jar Binks, and the fricken Ewoks for Pete's sake. Anybody I miss?

He also, in one movie, turned Princess Amidala into the exact opposite of the blaster wielding hottie she was in the previous movie.

Meh. Don't get me started on George Lucas. :cry: