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Buy & Hold - 1000xZero - 04-28-2009 <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://finance.yahoo.com/special-edition/active-investor/buy_hold_rip;_ylt=A0wNc9ve3fZJOlAAy2xsLKJ4">http://finance.yahoo.com/special-editio ... AAy2xsLKJ4</a><!-- m --> Quote:Don't Believe in Buy and Hold - Hoofhurr - 04-28-2009 Interesting read. I have zero way of knowing if any of it is true but surely it's interesting. Re: Buy & Hold - Dustie - 04-28-2009 Quote:The yield drop from 4.5% at the end of 2007 provided a 37.5% appreciation. Add in the 4.5% interest and the total return was 42% last year. I want to go prove this. I can't believe that 42% number for last year. - Snowreap - 04-28-2009 it certainly sounds odd to try to add appreciation from yield drop (which can only be realized, as far as I know, by selling the bond) and interest (which can only be realized by holding the bond). but I know very little about bonds, so... -ken - bonestomper - 04-28-2009 Quote:Our all-time favorite graph shows the results from investing $100 in a 25-year zero-coupon Treasury bond at its yield high (and price low) in October 1981, and rolling it into another 25-year Treasury annually to maintain that 25-year maturity. On March 31, 2009, that $100 was worth $16,656 with a compound annual return of 20.4%. In contrast, $100 invested in the S&P 500 at its low in July 1982 was worth $1,502 last month for a 10.7% annual return including dividend reinvestment. So Treasuries outperformed stocks by 11.1 times! yes, they sell the bond every year to realize the capital gains and then reinvest into another 25yr maturity. there are some unique elements to treasury bonds that make this strategy possible, but also highly unlikely. T-Bonds are not callable, they cannot be paid off early. If you take the example there is the practical possibility that those gains were taxed at the regular income rate, as opposed to the lower capital gains rate, if they were done exactly on the year schedule. but the biggest problem i have with this is that in most of the years as interest rates were declining, you would have had to sold a 25yr treasury strip (that now had 24 years to maturity, because it was a year old) and buy a new 25 strip that had a lower coupon yield because the current interest rates are now lower than where they had been a year ago. More over, because T-bonds have the full faith and guarrantee of the US government they are considered safer and therefore pay less interest than corporate bonds. so your average person living off of interest never buys T-bonds because the cash flow is higher on corp bonds (and higher on municipal bonds depending on tax bracket). imho, what the writer did was find a period of time where a strategy performed considerably better than the stock market but it was a strat no one would implement for personal use and then draws eroneous conclusions about the stock market. even if they did employ this strategy successfully, now they acknowledge it is over Quote:Unfortunately, that rally is over. Our target of 3% yield on 30-year Treasuries, down from 14.7% in 1981, was exceeded at the end of 2008 when the yield fell to 2.6%. so now what are they going to recommend that is going to beat the 10% buy and hold strategy. - Vanraw - 04-28-2009 I do think buy and hold is dead. For instance, my son has a small chunk of cash from an accident. At the time it was a custodial account so he wouldn't go buy stupid shit. We decided to invest it all in relatively low risk index funds. This was at the peak of the internet bubble. He lost about half the value in the first year. Since then it has slowly climbed back into profitability, and then came the 2008 crash. He is now at about half the original value again. This was a buy and hold philosophy across 10 years. Buy and hold is dead. - Dustie - 04-28-2009 Pass on the message to your son that when he grows up, I'll teach him about Mr. Market, since you don't believe he exists! - Breand - 05-01-2009 I certainly think that the current 401k retirement strategy is incredibly flawed, and puts every American's wealth at the whim of a market with huge spikes and losses. Yet another problem caused by the FED for dropping interest rates so low. Back in the 80s, you could just put your money in a savings account and enjoy 6-8% returns. - amins - 05-01-2009 Why Buy and Hold when you can... Buy & Hold, while writing covered calls/puts on the downside? - Dustie - 05-01-2009 Breand Wrote:I certainly think that the current 401k retirement strategy is incredibly flawed, and puts every American's wealth at the whim of a market with huge spikes and losses. Yet another problem caused by the FED for dropping interest rates so low. Back in the 80s, you could just put your money in a savings account and enjoy 6-8% returns. Inflation itself would have almost beat your 6-8% savings account. The S&P would have beat that savings account 8 of 10 years and in many of those years, by double digit percentages. Code: Year | Inflation % | S&P Return % w Div |