Random Numbers

[Vllad]

Why? Have you not taken a look at all the calculations people (myself included) are doing for all our current MMOs and their stupid random number generators? The calculations are still possible, the randomness does not stop that. The randomness takes some power over the outcome away from the player (how much is dictated by the abundance/lack of randomly generated values).

I am not talking about being more calcuted while NOT playing. I am talking about being more calculated WHEN playing. Non random games don't leave room for mistakes so players start playing the game in a more calculated fashion. The action slows down and the mayhem factors dissapear. I am not saying this is good or bad but the fact is less random games are certainly more dry than your standard MMO.

Again, why are they "NEVER balanced"?

This is an entirely different topic. However if we can agree that MMO's are never truly balanced then we expand. Non random factors make the differences in inbalance even larger and are more likely to turn off players and not add to the experience.

Even WWII on-line was flawed in this way. It wasn't random at all which is why it wasn't a better game than it was. WWII on-line combat was very predictable. Only the human element changed the outcome.

I never played WWII online. What was the gameplay like. It sounds like it was simply a non-random game with a shallow combat system.

The non random games are anything but shallow. I highly recommend you read up on the game. Non random games are very complicated and difficult to build so players will enjoy them.

Most importantly MMO's and other multi player games need mechanics to balance the difference in players. Not every player is equal and if you want large team based competition you can't have players that are far superior to others. MMO's are not a single player competition. Typically they are a team competition (hence the term MMO). You simply can't achieve that if some players are way out in front of other players. The team concept will fail without balancing components. Just look at "APB" for an example of what happens when the random elements are removed from the game.

Why is a difference in player skill a bad thing? I don't think it is. Also, what keeps the design of the combat system from placing a ceiling on the capabilities of the "best" players? There isn't much any game can do about vast differences in actions per minute between players except restrict how quickly players can activate skills, change their movement, etc.

I am not saying it is bad. I am saying players in general don't like to play games where 1 guy just lays waste to a party of 10. You are always going to have better players skill wise. That isn't the point of the MMO. The point is so everyone can participate and contribute and not feel like they are in over their head. That is why designers keep putting out class games.

The simple fact is if you want to design a game with large player participation you have to even the playing field. Otherwise the only people that will play your game is the top 10% of the players.

The items used to limit player skills are:

*Class based system
*Auto targeting
*No friendly fire
*Combat Activation Skills (push a button to activate a spell or attack)
*Crits
*Passive skills of any kind
*Adding or subtracting movement factors
*Any kind of CC (fears, snares, knockdowns etc)
*Imaginary combat limitations (Mana pools, Energy Pools etc)

See CPRG for a great combat system that eliminates random factors.

Why can't you have a system of large teams where one team has some better players than the other? We already have this, even in random games.

You can. You just have to limit it. If players don't feel they can compete they don't play. The irony is gamers are not competitors they are people looking to have fun. Maybe it isn't enough dodge ball in school or what ever other reason you can think of. The fact is if you want large player participation you have to limit the difference in players.

CPRG is a better combat system then GW2 but people aren't flocking to CPRG. Their is a reason in CPRG people have to log in just to practice. The majority of players don't play games that require practice!

The random factors play a large role in player participation.

If a fight is going to be different is should be because of the movement, skill use, etc. of the players. This keeps the power over the outcome in the hands of the players.

You can still have this and still keep random factors in the engine.