04-06-2006, 03:56 PM
heh come to Florida Maull )... heartless PHD's ftw...
I cant really offer anything to this coversation beyond saying that sometimes the companies hiring illegal immigrants are still contributing in a very meaningful way to American society. At risk of diverting this coversation to a completely new topic, there are many industries (particularly manual labor intensive ones) where American companies cannot compete - both domestically and internationally. Even in markets where competition is slim, the American populace assigns a value to certain services. That value equates to a price, and that price is completely unnattainable for most companies in these industries because they cannot achieve the economies of scale to make such projects profitable. As a result companies look for illegal immigrants who are willing to work for less to do the work. They in turn are able to fill America's need for such services.
I can honestly say many of these I.A.'s are ecstatic to have the opportunity to work for these reduced wages. They save their money, and spend wisely, and live happy lives. Meanwhile sulking, apathetic American blue color labor sucks on the collective tits of overly liberal union sympathizing politicians, whose policies artificially drive up the cost of living by not only spending frivilously, but also by driving up the cost of production due to massive inefficiencies. The cost of production inturn effects the price of the product to the consumer whose income is now being split between increasingly expense goods and services (this is a far more complicated situation than this brief discription can describe, but you get the idea).
People studying economic theory will tout that America has no business conducting business where we cannot be profitable, but the ramafications of that have not truly been recognized through theory, and it was something that never truly sat well with me during my studies because of its tremendous over simplification of real-world business. And in the very end it really doesn't matter, because business owners and management are concerned with one thing - the success of the business and in turn themselves. They don't care if some guy with a pocket protector tells them they have no business being in an industry. In the end these businesses aren't concerned about economic theory, they are concern with their own livelihood. Oh yeah and for clarification's sake I'm not talking about huge corporations aka evil empire here either, I'm talking about the small mom and pop to medium sized businesses - the so called bread and butter of the American economy. These guys aren't evil because they are using illegal labor - some might be, but that percentage is the same in any situation (some bad, some good. Always). The fact is the jobs being done by I.A. labor are ones our own domestic labor pool doesn't want to do.
If more Americans were aware of how far reaching the effects of having no illegal immigrants working in the USA would be, I think we would be rapidly adapting a "don't ask don't tell" policy when it came to immigration. I realize I am being very vague here, but I am lacking the energy/desire to fully research this view so you have some examples, so you're stuck with this...
The only thing that is for certain in this world is this: if there is a need for something, and a void is present due to existing conditions, people will attempt to circumvent those conditions to meet that need. Which is why I side with those that argue opening up a legal channel to immigrate, and to remove some of the retarded red-tape associated with it.
For the sake of arguement though, if America did create a more open-door policy, the sheer numbers of people who would try to enter the country could turn our economy completely on its head. How do you counter that?
I cant really offer anything to this coversation beyond saying that sometimes the companies hiring illegal immigrants are still contributing in a very meaningful way to American society. At risk of diverting this coversation to a completely new topic, there are many industries (particularly manual labor intensive ones) where American companies cannot compete - both domestically and internationally. Even in markets where competition is slim, the American populace assigns a value to certain services. That value equates to a price, and that price is completely unnattainable for most companies in these industries because they cannot achieve the economies of scale to make such projects profitable. As a result companies look for illegal immigrants who are willing to work for less to do the work. They in turn are able to fill America's need for such services.
I can honestly say many of these I.A.'s are ecstatic to have the opportunity to work for these reduced wages. They save their money, and spend wisely, and live happy lives. Meanwhile sulking, apathetic American blue color labor sucks on the collective tits of overly liberal union sympathizing politicians, whose policies artificially drive up the cost of living by not only spending frivilously, but also by driving up the cost of production due to massive inefficiencies. The cost of production inturn effects the price of the product to the consumer whose income is now being split between increasingly expense goods and services (this is a far more complicated situation than this brief discription can describe, but you get the idea).
People studying economic theory will tout that America has no business conducting business where we cannot be profitable, but the ramafications of that have not truly been recognized through theory, and it was something that never truly sat well with me during my studies because of its tremendous over simplification of real-world business. And in the very end it really doesn't matter, because business owners and management are concerned with one thing - the success of the business and in turn themselves. They don't care if some guy with a pocket protector tells them they have no business being in an industry. In the end these businesses aren't concerned about economic theory, they are concern with their own livelihood. Oh yeah and for clarification's sake I'm not talking about huge corporations aka evil empire here either, I'm talking about the small mom and pop to medium sized businesses - the so called bread and butter of the American economy. These guys aren't evil because they are using illegal labor - some might be, but that percentage is the same in any situation (some bad, some good. Always). The fact is the jobs being done by I.A. labor are ones our own domestic labor pool doesn't want to do.
If more Americans were aware of how far reaching the effects of having no illegal immigrants working in the USA would be, I think we would be rapidly adapting a "don't ask don't tell" policy when it came to immigration. I realize I am being very vague here, but I am lacking the energy/desire to fully research this view so you have some examples, so you're stuck with this...
The only thing that is for certain in this world is this: if there is a need for something, and a void is present due to existing conditions, people will attempt to circumvent those conditions to meet that need. Which is why I side with those that argue opening up a legal channel to immigrate, and to remove some of the retarded red-tape associated with it.
For the sake of arguement though, if America did create a more open-door policy, the sheer numbers of people who would try to enter the country could turn our economy completely on its head. How do you counter that?
Gameless (for now)