Poll: iPad

[Grieve]

Some people are easily impressed.

Great! New Ipods with more touch screens which makes them more of a pain in the ass to use.. joy.

Not particularly impressed by the Shuffle and Nano overhaul, although I do think they will be big sellers. Apple TV revamp was the big deal today, although the music-based social networking it interesting to, and the overall to the iPod Touch is pretty huge too (basically with an iPod Touch you will have a full video phone without paying any fees to a provider). The gaming stuff was very impressive as well.

[Jakensama]

Havent looked at the gaming.

Isn't the apple tv just letting you rent stuff? Still fairly pointless if you have any other streaming device that doesn't have to be hacked to let you stream your divx files you don't have to pay to "rent" off the internet.

I assume when its hacked it can be made moderately useful like the other one, but if they are going to a rent model aren't they nerfing the hard drive on ti?

Old apple tv was the device that probably killed apple for me, the only product of theirs I'll probably buy is a real Ipod again when mine breaks as it is still the best music player out there, assuming I can still get one without a touchscreen.

[Grieve]

I never bought the original Apple TV because it wasn't HD, and was a little expensive.

With the new model they threw away the hard drive - everything is streamed now, either from Apple or from your computer or from your iDevice. So you can stream from your computer - don't know what the file type limitations are, but I imagine you can work with it...or else just hack it, as you said. And it has Netflix, so you can stream unlimited movies and TV if you have a Netflix sub.

It's also tiny - a quarter of the size of your old Apple TV. At $99, I'm guessing Roku and the like are dead. I already ordered mine.

[Jakensama]

I can do all of that on the PS3. If I didn't have a PS3 and it garunteed me support of my divx files on my PC like the original version couldn't do, I would consider getting one. But I seriously can't understand how you can make a video streaming device that can't stream the standard file type for video files.
And without a hard drive, will you be able to hack it anymore?

Well I get it, they want a monopoly on their itunes store and don't want people streaming their own shit - but imagine how shitty the ipod would have been if you could ONLY play files you get from a Steve Jobs Approved store?

[Dustie]

Had to change my vote. I broke down and got my wife an iPad for our anniversary. We both love it and don't really use the PC anymore.

Edit: Obviously I use the PC at work, and I will need a new PC when an MMO comes out that I want to play.

[Riz]

Welcome to the dark side Dustie. Let me know if you pick up Samurai or Carcassonne.

[Grieve]

I will need a new PC when an MMO comes out that I want to play.

Maybe not. Get Epic Citadel (free download for iPad and iPhone in the app store) and you will believe an MMO could work on the iPad. Same demo Steve Jobs presented earlier in the week...pretty damn cool.

[Snowreap]

I'm sure you *could* get an MMO to play on the iPad, but what kind of people would play it? people with iPads. I'm sure you see the problem.

-ken

[Jakensama]

I'm sure you could do a decent mmo if you plugged a bluetooth keyboard and mouse in... and the screens small so maybe hooked up a monitor.. and maybe toss a video card in there while your at it.

Actually I downloaded epic sword and it was fairly impressive, although I couldn't imagine this device ever replacing the multitude of other superior gaming devices I have - except on the shitter.... really that should be the marketing demographic for these things - guys who don't eat enough fiber.

[Riz]

I will say that you have been patently wrong on your target market in most of your posts Jake. The iPad is outselling netbooks and still selling like crazy. The iPhone, iPod touch are owning the handheld gaming market.

Seems that the masses have other opinions.

[Jakensama]

I said I couldn't imagine it replacing any gaming devices I have. If I was a kid and still played with gameboys, maybe it would. The targetting it as a toilet tool thing was tounge in cheek (although it is it's best use) - I am aware it is selling well.

But its impossible for a tablet (or netbook, which I would view as a tool rather than a toy like the ipod) to compete with a PC or a PS3 for real gaming.

It still does nothing that a device I have lying around can't do better.

I would be quite keen for a NES/SNES/PS1 emulator for it and think that would be nifty since I occassionally do pop those on my laptop during biz trips, but I am guessing that wont get the jobs seal of approval due to the necessary piracy that goes along with it...

[Slamz]

Like so many things in gaming today, it's a great leap forwards in terms of pricing and popularity and a huge leap into the pit of everlasting despair in terms of game depth and quality.

We have gone from Dungeon Keeper, World of Warcraft and Hearts of Iron III to Mafia Wars and clicky games worth about $2 each.

We'll now have to wait 5 years while the handheld gaming market catches back up to where the PC gaming market was 10 years ago. If it ever does. Gaming is far more popular, but the definition of "gaming" has gotten a lot worse.

[Grieve]

I believe there will be a World of Warcraft quality game on the iPad within a year or two. The iPod Touch alone is now the most popular handheld gaming device in the world, ahead of the DS and PSP combined. Add in millions of iPhones and iPads and you have an enormous market. The game makers are taking notice of that and reacting accordingly. The processing power and graphics quality is there, it just takes the programmers to exploit it.

Check out the demo from the Apple event:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK9PCpN4MrI[/youtube]

[Zirak]

That's pretty but the question is will it have any depth? Can it give me the depth of a Planescape: Torment or a Fallout or Jagged Alliance 2? Or, for that matter, even a really old game like Wasteland? What I saw was a bunch of video glitz wrapped around tapping the screen a bunch.

[Jakensama]

I dont think the depth of controls is on the ipad (or any handheld) to make a wow quality game.. Give me the name of one really in depth ipad game right now I can go home and download that isn't controlled by wii like gimmickry.

Not to mention my wow install would take like half the memory on the device.

I am sure ipod touch/ipad can overtake the other handhelds (I guess, havent owned one since the old school game boy) due to hardware, but I dont think handhelds are gonna approach real gaming devices any time soon.

But we'll see.

[Riz]

It seems that the processing power available on the iPhone 4 at least is currently better than most PCs for graphics processing. That's according to the guys who ported the Unreal 5 engine to it. I'll take their word on it, as it runs smooth as hell on mine.

There are lots of games with depth on the iphone currently. Hell, Rimelands is giving most turn-based RPGs I've played a run for its money. Now, it's only a 10 hour game, but at $4.99, that's fine by me. Honestly, according to the last big gamedev conference, the move is toward smaller games. Turns out that more than 80% of gamers don't do any side quests in RPG games and only 40% actually ever finish them. Lots of time wasted on development there if very few are ever going to experience it.

Would I want to play WOW on it? Nope. However, I'm just gonna lay my cards on the table and say that the MMO market is stagnant. It's not the future any more. You COULD play a Guild Wars type game on the iDevices (with limited powers available, you don't need as many hotkeys). Hell, given the number of polygons, and the fact that there are already successful multi-player FPS games ported to the devices, I'd say it wouldn't be hard.

[Grieve]

For a WoW type game, control and communication are the obvious challenges. In the absense of a bluetooth keyboard (which is doable, but clunky), I'm guessing gestures and voice are the way to go. Multi-touch offers a lot of possibilities, such swiping to hit, circles, "runes", and other gestures to cast spells (which frankly is more immersive than hammering a hotkey anyway), and so on. For communication, I'm guessing voice is the way to go, which seems to be the way MMOs are headed anyway.

I don't see an iPod or iPhone being a viable medium, but an iPad is. Especially as resolution and memory increase.

Zirak, depth is a limitation of the programmers, not the hardware. As iDevices become more and more of a viable market, the same resources will be put into them as for PCs. With the added bonus of standard hardware, simple distribution, standardized multi-player mechanisms, etc.

[Slamz]

It seems that the processing power available on the iPhone 4 at least is currently better than most PCs for graphics processing. That's according to the guys who ported the Unreal 5 engine to it. I'll take their word on it, as it runs smooth as hell on mine.

I don't see how that's physically possible, though I guess it depends on what we're defining as "most PCs". My computer at work has some kind of really shitty nVidia card that's not very big and doesn't even have a fan. That I can believe. My current gaming machine has an nVidia 480 GX, which is gigantic, has metal pipes coming out of it and gets hot as fuck. It would probably drain the entire iPhone battery in about 3 minutes. If the iPhone 4 has the graphical power of so much as an nVidia 9800, I'd be curious to know how they solved the heat problem without losing performance. The 9800 was pretty damn big and most of that was the cooling.

So basically I don't believe them, or I think they are taking a dishonest definition of "most computers" and including machines that were never intended for gaming or are 14 years old.


Basically, I want to see some solid A+ titles moving to the iPad before I'm likely to invest in one. What I've seen is interesting and I'm sure I'd get use out of it, but it's game designs from 1992. The graphics may be better but the actual design and depth of the game is from 1992. (And that might be a generous estimate. Starflight was 1986. Star Control 2 was 1992. Total Annihilation was 1997. Let me know when the iPad has something like that but with modern graphics.)

[Jakensama]

The latest unreal engine is 3, so if they ported unreal engine 5 to the iphone maybe they are from the future where graphics processors no longer create heat.

[Grieve]

See, this explains why the iPad was deliberately designed not to work well in direct sunlight...that just encourages this sort of behaviour. Boycott Kindles!!

http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/bus...from=yahoo

[Vanraw]

See, this explains why the iPad was deliberately designed not to work well in direct sunlight...that just encourages this sort of behaviour. Boycott Kindles!!

http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/bus...from=yahoo

haha, when I used to commute in Chicago I used to watch people reading the Chicago tribune while driving down the expressway.

[Grieve]

For people who don't understand why Steve Jobs has such a cult following, how many massive corporations have a boss that not only replies to individual e-mails from regular people, but isn't afraid to tell whiny college students to STFU? Not to mention ammassing a collection of ninja death devices to take down the haters...

[Jakensama]

Yes, insulting your customers makes one truly a visionary CEO.

Or a twat with bad fashion sense.

I am jealous of him though, If I had the leeway to tell my whiney customers to STFU my day would be more amusing.

[Grieve]

She wasn't a customer, she was a whiny student complaining that she had a deadline to meet for her report. And he didn't insult her, he just asked her to "please leave us alone" - very reasonable, I thought.

[Jakensama]

By her claim she was, although generally its just normal buisness practice to be somewhat polite to your customers, his snide condescending comments probably felt good to say and she deserved it - but it hardly exemplifies anything other than the fact that he runs a gigantic company with blindly fanatical support so he can afford to be a douche.

I'm also pissed at apple in general after the weekend of headaches trying to get my ipod touch working after I accidentally updated the firmware and realized that they had done their damndest to not be able to run the firmware you want on a product you bought. Fuck apple.