05-29-2009, 03:34 PM
..Again, just a list of items that I'll try to keep updated as we will do with "best things from past games."
I think this thread should, at a minimum encompass everything that ever made us quit a game. It should probably also contain everything that ever made us say "what a waste of time", or "what idiot thought of this?"
A. Speed imbalances ala POBS
B. Massive modifiers ala SWG commandos, doctors
C. Chain mez, roots, etc
D. Empty Player Cities ala SWG
E. Pin hole sized warping ala EVE
F. Repetitive Grind ala POBS port grinding, WoW faction grind
G. Handle Instancing Well (if any)
H. Non-meaningful or extended Downtime
I.
J.
K.
L. Getting the Death Penalty Right
M. Poor Economic System and Crafter unemployment
N. Safezone management
I think this thread should, at a minimum encompass everything that ever made us quit a game. It should probably also contain everything that ever made us say "what a waste of time", or "what idiot thought of this?"
A. Speed imbalances ala POBS
B. Massive modifiers ala SWG commandos, doctors
C. Chain mez, roots, etc
Thudz Wrote:Losing control of your character. Stuns, Mind Controls, Knockdowns etc.
D. Empty Player Cities ala SWG
E. Pin hole sized warping ala EVE
F. Repetitive Grind ala POBS port grinding, WoW faction grind
G. Handle Instancing Well (if any)
Diggles Wrote:I would have to say instancing pvp is a huge mistake, unless its a battle like PotBS that others have a window to join.
The mass crowd control dated to DAOC, where the healers for midgard could lock down large numbers of people and let their team pain train them 1 by 1
Even though I enjoyed it, the spells that took your away control of your character control in Eq really pissed people off....enchant player, blind, fear
Vllad Wrote:Finally I disagree somewhat on the pvp and instants. While in general it is true their are some exceptions.
Lets say in our faction based scenario that some large Angel Lord was going to attack some Lich King. We are talking about an NPC fight of massive proportions. 500 NPC's vs 500 NPC's.
If PC's wanted to participate and the battle was pre-determined to go off at 10 PM EST on a Friday. I don't see anything wrong with instancing that off and locking off the area that the battle is going to occur.
Their was nothing wrong with the Port Battles in POBS. The part that was wrong with it is that it limited who could participate.
What was wrong with POBS was open sea battles where instanced.
I don't think you can create a massive evolving world with out instance world changin events. You can't have passive things getting in the way of large battles. The lag can't be dealt with then. i.e., we can't have some stray random guy running into the battle who didn't know it was going on. He is helping create lag.
It will be especially important if you open up large faction warfare to all who want to come. At the very least open it up to very large amounts of PC's.
H. Non-meaningful or extended Downtime
Thudz Wrote:Long down time between encounters.
I.
Vllad Wrote:*Lack of friendly fire. Nothing polices a community better then the people who play the game.
J.
Vllad Wrote:*Classes
K.
Vllad Wrote:*Gear overload, Any game where the gear produces more then 20% of the outcome of a game is a problem. Mudflation rules and creates to large of gap between the haves and have nots.
L. Getting the Death Penalty Right
Ulfen Wrote:Which ties in to my other pitfall which is quick pvp battles, instant or near instant kill abilities are gay, 1v1 pvp fights should last minutes not seconds, and large scale pvp should last an hour or more.
Slamz Wrote:I used to agree with that but I don't anymore, or rather, I think it depends on how you design the game. (I discussed this in some other thread...PvP Game Design I think?)
A 1v1 FPS fight that lasted 60 seconds would be pretty terrible. You'd both just be shooting the hell out of each other trying to whittle down the other guy's health faster than he whittled down yours.
In WAR/WOW, I agree that fights need to last for a decent amount of time because that's where the "skill" comes from -- activating a variety of skills in a strategic fashion, plus maneuvering. Same thing for POTBS. In an FPS, though, the skill is in who aims and shoots faster/better and it's best if fights resolves themselves very quickly, so that the player with the best awareness and quick aiming gets rewarded for that part of his skill.
So really, fight duration depends on fight mechanics. The important thing is that they "require skill". Then you have to decide what skills you want the fights to emphasize. Long, slow fights emphasize strategy and maneuvers. Quick fights emphasize surprise and reaction.
M. Poor Economic System and Crafter unemployment
Veraphim Wrote:I feel that "Poor Economic Systems" is a pitfall that should be on the list.
WOW, quite possibly, had the worst systems. Gathering was boring and tedius. Crafting was just as boring, and was un-rewarding to boot. Items could always be fully repaired and therefore, nothing ever left the game until a player deleted it because he got better. There was no system in place to keep crafters employed.
I actually think SWG got the gathering/crafting the most correct of all the MMOs I've played. I posted the main points in the other thread about Best Features of other games.
N. Safezone management
Staracker Wrote:in a pvp game, safe zones are a pitfall. they allow trash talkers a safe haven to inundate others with spam without consequences. before luclin, pvp was at its greatest on SZ, you never knew who might be near your camp out/bind point. I played a DE cleric and used to bind near my guildleader. if some newt wanted to bind camp me, they wouldnt be able to do it for long before their faction (if it was the same as mine) would drop and the guild NPCs would tear them a new one.
"Hamilton is really a Colossus to the anti republican party. Without numbers he is an host within himself. They have got themselves into a defile where they might be finished but too much security on the republican part will give time to his talents and indefatigableness to extricate them. We have had only middling performances to oppose to him. In truth when he comes forward there is nobody but yourself who can meet him. His adversaries having begun the attack he has the advantage of answering them and remains unanswered himself. For God's sake take up your pen and give a fundamental reply to Curtius and Camillas" - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison