I forget...why did we discard Albion Online?

[Arsilon]

Logged into Steam this morning to find the Lunar New Year sale going on.  One of the first games that popped into my "you might enjoy" list was Albion Online which is free to play (don't know if it always was or changed over time)

I checked out the reviews and they show as mostly positive.

The first few that popped up had:

"You will notice a large amount of people posting negative reviews are the ones who complain the game is too unforgiving. They'll say it's unpleasant dying to groups larger than them, and how if they can't play solo, the game therefore sucks."

"I realiy like this game when i start. It promised most of things like crafts, lvls, fishing, pve, pvp. and there was realy a good time i spent. But after reaching a lvl i findout that i have to fight pvp to lvl up my gathering skill or fishing. its silly. Why should i pvp to mine or fish? When you lose pvp (thats becouse you want to farm and gear pve) you lose all your staff+inv. Thats no fair. After playing so much hours you findout that you have to find a decent guild and play the game as your guild say so or die always and lose your all items + inv. I like this game but i hate when i need guilds or have to pvp"

It appears to be built on the Unity engine -- the only other game that I know focused on PvP that is built on it is Rust which I never played myself.

Why did we poo poo this way back when again?  Or did we try it and it sucked?  I don't remember.

[Arsilon]

Did some googling...was it grindy perhaps?

[Dharus]

I get that suggestion too. I've been curious about it but I think games where you cannot mitigate large group PvP leads to ultimately low skill, low interesting pvp. That is sort of why I'm messing around in EvE. I don't attack in EvE though because numbers still win but I've been running more and more into dangerous areas to make money. When I escape a pack of pirates or roaming bands looking for kills, I see it as a win.

[AnneWildcat]

Since it seems free to play, we can always try it.

[Arsilon]

OK, i downloaded it. I am thinking grindy was the reason we passed. The skill trees look pretty comprehensive (think something like Path of Exile) and you have to progress through the skill tree by doing stuff, eg. Mine 10,000 ore for next level along mining tree. Craft 3000 x for X tree, etc. You don't pick a class -- what gear you put on dictates what 'class' you are (presumably you do have to pick trees to advance your skills further as well).

They give you "premium" access which has the built in accelerators for initial 3 days for free after which you have to buy it. If the amount of harvest/craft X gets larger the deeper you go, I can see how that would encourage you to have to buy the premium perks vs. using the base free to play game. So while not pay to win -- clearly pay to not click the same things 10000 times perhaps.

Given it is free to play, may be interesting to pop into and see what trouble we can stir up - the comments seemed to making it interesting when both the most helpful positive and negative comments both talk about PvP being hardmode.

[Slamz]

I was mostly against it for the graphics style, though it's probably how they got away with using Unity for an MMO: kinda like UO, you just can't see very far. I look at the videos for it and have a hard time feeling interested. But who knows. Maybe the gameplay is awesome.

P.S.
At last, Dophuz will have a game he can play where his jokes about premium players are true! Seems similar to the Planetside model, though. Mainly grants a boost to your progression rate (and gathering).

[Slamz]

Played it a few hours. I actually had fun. I think it kinda mis-sells itself as an "MMORPG".

I'd say it's really a Diablo style action hack-and-slasher that is, somewhat incidentally, massively multiplayer. Reminds me of games like Torchlight. Massively multiplayer Torchlight. Or just about any top-down hack and slash game, really. It's very "gamey" so not something you should play with a Serious Business Conan-style mindset. It's a little twitchy but I'd maybe put it as about GW2 level in terms of twitchiness.

The tutorial area was not impressive but once you get a couple unlocks, which will happen fairly early, the combat gets a lot more interesting.

So if you play it for what it is I'd say it's pretty fun. Didn't get into PvP yet. Not sure where you end up stumbling into it. I just kinda ran around doing the dungeons I found (there are a lot, though they tend to follow a randomly-generated-looking set-piece pattern for any given area) but none of the zones I went in were PvP enabled.

It's a classless system but you can't mix weapons -- or you can but that's a little more like multi-classing where you'd be splitting your XP between, say, sword and fire staff as you switch between the weapons, slowing your advancement down in both. Not sure if you can switch weapons in combat but there's no obvious hot-swap. But you can build your own armor layout based on what effects you like -- mage hat, leather chest, plate boots? I started doing a full plate, sword and board guy and decided I liked "pyro wizard tank" better so now I'm a full plate, fire staff and board guy and that seems to be working well (though I don't have a lot of basis for comparison).

I did a little crafting and decided I didn't feel like it so I just started buying everything (with in-game silver). They're doing the EVE plex style thing, I think, where you can buy real-life-money currency ("gold") and spend that on your subscription renewal or (I think) sell it to players for in-game currency ("silver") and vice versa. Potentially (as in EVE) you could buy your way to subscriptions by gathering silver and then selling it for gold. At least I think that's how it works. I didn't see any pay-to-win stuff, but like Planetside, you get clear benefits if you subscribe.


I would label it as:
Probably not the next big thing but fun to dick around in.
Comes with 3 days of premium to lure you in.

[Arsilon]

If people are going to try it, should probably declare a home area since I think you have to pay to change major areas and/or run across the map;  I have no idea how problematic and/or how expensive that is yet with the 1 hour I did poke around in.

I think I started in the Steppes area.

I'll have to see if you start a new character if you still get the premium trial for each character or if its only your first one as well in case people mess up and start in the wrong place.
[Edit:  I started a new character and skipped the tutorial and didn't get the premium token things - I don't remember if they were a training quest result or not.  Also, it does look like premium is per character not per account which suggests you only get those on your first character.  In theory, you can level up anything you want so not sure why you would even need alts in this game. It also appears you only get the Novice mule on your first character.]

As for PvP I think you have to progress through the first few "tiers" which are all in safe areas, not unlike Eve.  From the comments it sounds like at whatever tier it is, the worlds become PvP enabled;  thus the complaints from carebears that they have leveled up, gathered and crafted in complete safety then whammo.

[Arsilon]

OK, don't skip the tutorial.

As best as I can tell, you need to do the tutorial to get your starting mount.

Also, it's free to travel between zones BUT you have to pay to bring anything with you...INCLUDING your starting mount.

So, more reason to pick a starting zone if anyone wants to play together.

I did verify that you do get 3 day premium trial once you pick the zone you go to out of the tutorial so even if people need to start over, not a huge deal. Takes 20 minutes to complete the tutorial again.

I'm going to suggest MOUNTAIN as starting zone.

[AnneWildcat]

I installed the game but haven’t played yet. Just confirming Mountain as starting zone.

[Dharus]

I'm still playing Eve and now Conan so that'll suck up my time but I'll switch over in a few months if I get bored.

[Slamz]

I don't think the starting points are so far apart that walking there is a big deal but I could be entirely wrong. I think I went to something called the highlands but it seemed like the swamp (another starting area) was just counter-clockwise a bit up the map. Starting a guild is blocked by a barrier of some amount of in-game cash though you could probably do it in a day with a few people. I'll get on TS next time I'm in. I watched the trailer for the big update I guess they just did ("Queen") and seems like they did a lot to change how the world/PvP/guilds work with a focus on smaller guilds so you aren't so obligated to join the biggest zerg you can find. Probably is a good time to check the game out.

[Slamz]

I'll probably start a sub-forum for Albion if it looks like we're going to stick with it for a bit. But for now, some important reading:
https://albiononline.com/en/guides/artic...lagging+85


Albion has a lot of different PvP rules. I'll try to sum up:

Non-PvP zones: where you start and around the edges of the newbie continent.

Yellow PvP zones: if you flag yourself for PvP, you can attack all other players, whether they are flagged or not. If you get defeated you lose some item durability and may drop something from your inventory. You'll drop some silver generated from the durability loss you took. You only lose it all if you click "die". Yellow is the "just for funsies" PvP zone.

Red PvP zones: same flagging system but if you get defeated then you die and lose everything.

Black PvP zones: like red but everyone is flagged.


So if you wander into a yellow or red zone and don't flag, you can't attack other unflagged players so you kinda mitigate your risk, but flagged players can still attack you and in red you are risking all your stuff. (In yellow I imagine that people would try to camp you and kill you repeatedly but you could eventually get away with that immunity-on-revive buff.)

There's also Faction PvP which sounds like it turns the entire world into a black PvP zone for anyone who is not in your faction regardless of if you're in a non-PvP area, yellow, red, whatever. If you're faction flagged for A and they are flagged for B, you can kill them and get all their stuff.


I think the take-away may be to consider keeping some spare gear around. Full loot could be incredibly lucrative but you could also go out PvPing and find yourself naked.

I think there may also be an option to build an auction house on our guild island that only we can use, so we can buy and sell gear to each other.

[Slamz]

Reputation system:
https://albiononline.com/en/guides/artic...0?p=1&f=&s=

Short version: don't flag up and start murdering people until you're basically done with the starter continent and ready to go live in the Outlands. Murdering people will fairly quickly lock you out of those starter continent cities until you earn enough reputation to get out of the hole (you gain reputation by doing pretty much anything that is not murdering people).

[Vllad]

After reading up on the PVP issues I do believe they are legit.

The complaints remind me very much of EVE. Large corps/clans are going to rule the primary pvp zones and small parties just don't have a place in them. I am sure we will figure something out but building out there isn't likely.

[Slamz]

Bear in mind a lot of what you read is pre-patch. The "Queen" update apparently only launched on 20 Jan 2020, so last Monday, and completely changed how the outlands works.

I don't know exactly what that means (something about how territory control works) but I know their goal was to make it more approachable for small guilds, so take anything you read dated before last week with a grain of salt.

[Slamz]

Hideouts are one of the new things they added:
https://wiki.albiononline.com/wiki/Hideouts

Kinda puts me in a mind of Conan Exiles. Build your guild hideout. The local "alpha" can attack it but only during certain times and it sounds like randoms can't attack it -- just the territory owner. So make nice with the local territory owner and you can probably avoid fighting to the death over your hideout (until the territory owner loses to someone else, anyway...)

Also looks like we're going to want some people running private islands (or Outlands farms, maybe) to do food/cooking. "Nutrition points" are the upkeep of structures (as we saw last night) and there's no farming in a guild island.

Attacking a hideout has a prohibitive looking cost to it but then again I have no idea how money scales.

[Vllad]

The problem right now with the hideouts is they aren't hidden. They show up on the map when you place it. So... there is no "hiding". It sounds like LIF where a big clan comes in and says pay our tax/join our alliance or we will destroy you. Then they go in and destroy you. It isn't like Conan where they actually have to find you. Everything is laid out on the map.

The reason the Queen was supposed to take some burden off of the hideouts was it added content for high levels. Right now the only content is zergs beating on smaller clans. Their is nothing literally to do at that level so it was expected the Queen would give them something else to do. Apparently that didn't work according to the forums.

[Vllad]

Some video's that may clarify some things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juFLKF97xWI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU5DVhdtoQQ

Looks like if you aren't doing range damage pvp is gonna be difficult.

[Slamz]

I think the first video had some valid complaints but I also think, from his videos, he's more of a 1v1 player. MMORPGs are always about group dynamics. 1v1 in WOW is usually lame, too. You have to get the dynamics of a 5v5 fight with crowd control and healers for it to get interesting. (Versus MOBAs, where the games are primarily built for 1v1/2v2 with group dynamics being secondary to good solo combat dynamics, which incidentally makes them a lot more twitchy.)

I do think he raises a valid point about zergs, though:
You've just ganked some dudes and stolen all their shit. Now what?

I think that's where a plan we've had to resort to in some other games comes in: you log out that character for an hour and log in some alt where you go farm potatoes or something. Let the heat die down and then go do your stash run. (I could also see large clans having EVE style "gate camps".) Probably a good case here for building up a crafting/farming alt with a private island you can dick around on whenever you need to lay low for a bit.


The second video had a good idea on Learning Points, though, which is "stop spending them". It really doesn't take long to power through a full rank without using the LP so you could reserve them for special lines you want to advance more quickly in for whatever reason.

As for melee vs ranged, I was thinking last night that we had a pretty good balance with, I think it was, 1-2 melee and the rest ranged. This game has a lot of AE spam in it so clumping up melee on a target is bad. You probably need one or two for the abilities they have but I don't think the old EQ2 Paladin melee group idea would play out well here. Then again, who knows. We do sometimes find ways to play games that somehow the entire rest of the community has failed to notice. People get set in their metas and don't often want to try anything new.

That said, it's probably worth doing some weapon swapping to keep skill up in a couple of different lines. Staff mages should probably pick at least one secondary staff to keep up some training in, for example, if not some entirely different second weapon. The game makes it pretty easy to be a "jack of all trades" to a basic extent -- like it wouldn't be hard for me to unlock the use of a second tier ice staff. Unlocking all the spells on it would be a bigger investment but I can at least use the thing and have some flexibility.

(It may not be wise to carry both types of weapons around due to durability/PvP losses but you can at least say, "What do we need? Tank or ranger? I can do that." or "Healer or DPS? Okay, I can do that." Kinda like Rift but moreso.)

[Zouji]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...1904598102


List of abilities. 

My guess would be:

4 or 5 of

Helm = Leather
Chest = Plate
Boots = Cloth

Weapon = Holy Staff

1 of 

Helm = Leather
Chest = Plate
Boots = Cloth

Weapon = Cursed Staff

The abilities in those categories should keep you alive and everyone will be able to heal and protect everyone.

In a larger group maybe one person can have a Cursed Staff

[Slamz]

That's a nice spreadsheet find.

I really like the plate boot "shield charge" ability. Handy for when tanking is getting out of hand. Pops a shield on you and everyone directly around you. Only catch is it's also a charge so you can't shield someone who isn't within melee range of an enemy which might really limit its usefulness in PvP (though it does always shield you and it's a pretty big shield).

I've been doing plate knight boots, plate guardian chest and plate guardian helm. Been using a Wildfire Staff most recently but may try some of the other fire staffs too and I may look at trying more with Frost. Frost doesn't seem as good for PvE but all the slows seem like they would be handy in PvP.

[Vllad]

That spread sheet is helpful. Warriors should be using a cross bow not a bow. That is helpful to know.

[Zouji]

You also get an offhand item.

[Crice]

That is helpful information Zouj. Thanks. I would be interested in cursed and will be doing some more looking into of Arcane to see if it is really useful or all in my head.