Cutting the cable

[Grieve]

So I'm trying to cut off the money spigot to those greedy buggers at the cable/satellite companies. As I see it, there are two main battles to fight:

1) Technical (I want TV, but I don't want to pay for it, or at least not as much, and I want to do it legally)

2) Political (convince the highly skeptical wife and rugrats)

This weekend I got the new Apple TV, which I love, but it's still very limited in TV channels (Fox, BBC and ABC only) Plus I don't want to pay for all the ungodly number of shows my wife watches, even at 99c a pop.

I can probably fix the cost problem by getting free over the air TV, but we live out in the boonies, and I can't get a single digial channel through my little plug in antenna.

I was thinking of picking one of these up:

http://www.antennahub.com/outdoorhdtvant...5QodM1hS1g

Anyone tried this (or something similar)? Does it work well? Can you stick it in the attic instead of the roof? (me clamoring around on the roof probably wouldn't end well, and the neighbors probably wouldn't be too impressed by one of these up there) Most importantly, how easy is it to route the one output from this to a bazillion (well, at least 10) cable outlets in the house? Guess I'd need to pick up a TIVO box to replace the DirecTv DVR as well...

[Vanraw]

Ive tried a indoor HDtv anttena bought at Best buy that worked pretty well.

Good reviews and suck here.

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FYI you need your Apple device to watch most network TV shows for free. Just a PC with a internet connection..... or Apple I guess.. All the major networks stream there shows. Plus you have Hulu and Netflix. Combine this with the HDTV over the air waves and a free application like Windows 7 media center, which acts like a DVR, and you all set. Blus a blue ray dvd player of course and a video card with a HDMI output.

I'm seriously looking at doing the same thing. I have a PC built with a ATI dual tunner card so I can DVR one channel and watch another. But I dont have wife approval yet.... So setting it up and we will do a trial. I'm setting up short cuts and such and making the PC a full media PC.

We will see.

[Grieve]

I actually used to have a PC with Media Center and XMBC hooked up to the TV, but the wife nixed it (a big beige box next to our nice sleek black HDTV doesn't look good, apparantly). Plus there are multiple TVs around the house, and it doesn't make sense to have a PC connected to each one...

She also doesn't like screwing around with network websites (not a geek girl in any way whatsoever). The Apple TV is great since it's so easy to use, but that's about the limit. It solves the movie issue (I have about 300 movies on a 2TB drive, including all the kid's DVDs, that I can stream to Apple TV), but not really the TV issue.

[Breand]

I'm still trying to figure out what on Earth the point of the AppleTV is when whatever it does can be done for nothing with your PC, or for half the price with other streamboxes, or free if you have game systems.

If you live in the boonies you will definitely want to do a rooftop HD antenna setup, don't try and cut corners because the broadcast networks so far have a very bad track record with their signals.

And as a cable employee, we'll get your money one way or the other You still need to pay to get bandwidth into your house. I'm sure that in about 10 years we will just be selling different tiers of bandwidth instead of programming.

[Zirak]

Anyone every mess with one of these?

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[Grieve]

I'm still trying to figure out what on Earth the point of the AppleTV is when whatever it does can be done for nothing with your PC, or for half the price with other streamboxes, or free if you have game systems.

It's the same argument as for other Apple devices - they make it easy for the regular, non-geeky person. I'm a geek - I have no problem doing everything via the PC. My wife...not so much.

Also, remember it's only $99 now. I'm not sure anything comparable is out there for half that price. All the reviews have said it blows away everything already in the market, particularly for ease of use.

[Vanraw]

I'm still trying to figure out what on Earth the point of the AppleTV is when whatever it does can be done for nothing with your PC, or for half the price with other streamboxes, or free if you have game systems.

It's the same argument as for other Apple devices - they make it easy for the regular, non-geeky person. I'm a geek - I have no problem doing everything via the PC. My wife...not so much.

Also, remember it's only $99 now. I'm not sure anything comparable is out there for half that price. All the reviews have said it blows away everything already in the market, particularly for ease of use.

Well windows media center works out of the box the same way and its interface is very cable like. Hulu has a media center interface too now.

However I know exactly what your talking about in reference to the wife not liking the box... Hell my wife hates that fact that we have a cable box. She thought that went out of style in the 80s

[Vanraw]

Oh Googletv finally launched today!
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Here is a comparison of the features.

Interesting how none of them are integrating directly with the networks. Though Google has a web browser so thinking you will be able to go to thier websites.

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[Jakensama]

I'm still trying to figure out what on Earth the point of the AppleTV is when whatever it does can be done for nothing with your PC, or for half the price with other streamboxes, or free if you have game systems.

You get the smug satisfaction of giving your money to a douchebag in a turtleneck for something that should cost nothing.

Hell, the new TV we got for our bedroom has streaming and hulu and everything built in anyway.

It's the same argument as for other Apple devices - they make it easy for the regular, non-geeky person. I'm a geek - I have no problem doing everything via the PC. My wife...not so much.

Can the new one do the ridiculously simple task of streaming a divx file off a pc without having to hack it yet? That was a bit of the flaw in the "make things easier" portion of the old one.

I remember before it was released someone saying that it would be easier to use this to stream Non Steve Jobs Explicitly Approved Forms of Media (sold by apple, natch) - but hadn't heard since anyone bought one..

If so for 99 bucks would be an okay device for someone who doesn't have a game system or a new tv and just wants to stream.

[Grieve]

You get the smug satisfaction of giving your money to a douchebag in a turtleneck for something that should cost nothing.

Hell, the new TV we got for our bedroom has streaming and hulu and everything built in anyway.

You don't think that was factored into the cost of the TV?

Can the new one do the ridiculously simple task of streaming a divx file off a pc without having to hack it yet? That was a bit of the flaw in the "make things easier" portion of the old one.

You're missing the point. Regular folks don't have divx files to stream off their PC. The geeky folks who do buy the geek boxes or use their game console or whatever. Or they just convert it from divx to mp4, which is ridiculously simple in of itself.

I remember before it was released someone saying that it would be easier to use this to stream Non Steve Jobs Explicitly Approved Forms of Media (sold by apple, natch) - but hadn't heard since anyone bought one..

MP4 is an international standard, not sure what your point is. That's like complaining that iPhones don't support Flash (a proprietary standard), only HTML5 (a, yes, international standard).

If so for 99 bucks would be an okay device for someone who doesn't have a game system or a new tv and just wants to stream.

Or that wants to rent movies or TV shows.

I haven't used my Xbox360 to stream, since I can't comment on how straightforward it is or isn't to use for streaming or Netflix, but I'm guessing it's far less straightforward than Apple TV. Again...this thing, like the iPad, like the iPhone, is aimed at regular, non-techie people.

And I very much doubt that all new TVs (or even a majority of them) have streaming built in. Of course, the US is generally behind Europe on this stuff anyway...

[Jakensama]

You're missing the point. Regular folks don't have divx files to stream off their PC. The geeky folks who do buy the geek boxes or use their game console or whatever. Or they just convert it from divx to mp4, which is ridiculously simple in of itself.

Actually pretty much all my non geeky friends of my age who know fuck all about computers know how to get video files off the internet and would buy the device to stream them.. Thats why my old roomate bought and got ripped off on the old one.. It wouldn't recognize a shared pc drive and it wouldn't play a file type that a 30 euro POS dvd player can read. Theres no excuse why I should have to convert my files from the fucking internet standard to do something basically any other media playback device can do and which there is no reason to not support out of the box unless your trying to force people into your store.

The fact that old technophobes dont do something is not going to represent the 'average user' forever.

MP4 is an international standard, not sure what your point is. That's like complaining that iPhones don't support Flash (a proprietary standard), only HTML5 (a, yes, international standard).

If you are marketing a streaming device that does not support the codec that the vast majority of all video is encoded with, yes - it is idiotic and nothing more than a plan to steer all content consumed through the channels that apple can best monotize, much like their idiocy of disallowing flash (regardless if the user wants the option to enable it, because steve knows best - do not question steve).

Or that wants to rent movies or TV shows.

Then get netflix which is starting to ship on new tvs, but yeah, I consider that streaming - if you haven't got a device already then its a cheap one that might be okay if you can make it watch content you already own without hacking.

I haven't used my Xbox360 to stream, since I can't comment on how straightforward it is or isn't to use for streaming or Netflix, but I'm guessing it's far less straightforward than Apple TV. Again...this thing, like the iPad, like the iPhone, is aimed at regular, non-techie people.

Its retardedly easy on my ps3, I imagine xbox ain't much harder.

And I very much doubt that all new TVs (or even a majority of them) have streaming built in. Of course, the US is generally behind Europe on this stuff anyway...

When we were at kraut best buy most of the plasma/lcds had wifi on them.

I still am bitter though as while I think the ipad is fairly useless, at least its a neat toy (that the mrs. made me buy and then still steals my kindle) - the original apple tv was among the biggest wastes of money I have seen a non techie friend buy, and this guy had monster cables for everything.

[Grieve]

Let's face it, divx is a standard for piracy. Sure it's used for legal stuff too, but most people who have divx files they want to play got them via bittorrent. That Apple doesn't feel a particular need to make it easy for people stealing movies instead of buying them through iTunes...not terribly surprising.

[Jakensama]

Yup, Apple - Convenient as Long as You Buy From Usâ„¢

Media playback devices shouldn't be making choices of what they play back, especially if they are explicitly sold as media playback devices.

Maybe google tv will be worth a damn, but really I think these devices will sooner or later be obsolete since these features already are or soon enough will be integrated into actual usefull devices.

[Grieve]

Yes, it's outrageous that they don't build in support for people who like to steal movies. It's like the vending machine at work...they prevent it from accepting counterfeit money! I mean, what the hell's up with that? Damn nazis.

Incidently, I didn't pay Apple for any of the movies I play through my Apple TV. I have 300 DVDs converted using Handbrake, and they work just fine.

As for Google TV, it does look interesting, but it's doing something completely different from Apple TV. Google TV is trying to sit on top of your cable/satellite plan, while Apple is trying to replace it. Google TV's primary model is to be built into TVs, starting with Sony sets. I'm not even sure it lets you stream content from your computer - at least I don't see anything about that on their website.

[Vanraw]

Let's face it, divx is a standard for piracy. Sure it's used for legal stuff too, but most people who have divx files they want to play got them via bittorrent. That Apple doesn't feel a particular need to make it easy for people stealing movies instead of buying them through iTunes...not terribly surprising.

Wow, this is very naive. Divx is used by allot more then bittorrent priacy. Microsift Xbox and Sony ps3 support it. I think you are painting apple like some sort of a angelic company that frankly couldn't be farther from the truth. The formats they do and dont support, as well as the restrictions they put on other companies / players playing their format is nothing short of propriety minipulation to force people to use iTunes.

Why cant I stream a itunes purchased movie or music on my media player / xbox? The fact that I cant makes me want to convert it to divx.

My biggest grip (as a customer) with Apple is their screwed up DRM and how they attempt to use it to force customers into a proprietary player. Its like they make DVD's that cant be played in 90% of the players? Can you say betamax?

I think in the long run it is going to hurt them.

[Vanraw]

Y
As for Google TV, it does look interesting, but it's doing something completely different from Apple TV. Google TV is trying to sit on top of your cable/satellite plan, while Apple is trying to replace it. Google TV's primary model is to be built into TVs, starting with Sony sets. I'm not even sure it lets you stream content from your computer - at least I don't see anything about that on their website.

It doesn't require cable. Its the same as apple TV, though neither one has agreement from enough providers to be viable. The cable is just an added function if you want it.

I like that google has a browser, and that they are selling it as a applet to TV mfg. This is a great business move, in that companies will be linning up to provide internet experiance including browsing on their TV's.

I am disappointed however that they didnt offer a software only solution, aka, Media Center like capability that I could load on my PC / PCs.

[Grieve]

Maul, Apple didn't want DRM, the music companies forced it on them. Steve Jobs finally forced them to drop it a while back.

iTunes Store goes DRM-free

Thoughts on Music - an open letter by Steve Jobs

[Vanraw]

Steve Jobs, forced it because Amazon was easting into their profits with MP3 sales. Jobs didnt give a shit about Microsoft because they are also DRM based and he simply decided he wouldn't support WMA or allow xbox to support apple. Once Amazon said we will do Mp3's he had no option. He was forced.

I agree that initially the music industry forced poorly managed DRM on companies like Apple. But make no mistake, Steve would have been happy to keep it DRM and force the non-geeks to use iTunes rather then embrace a open free competitive market.

[Grieve]

What do you base that on? Did you read his open letter from Feb 2007?

When Apple approached these companies to license their music to distribute legally over the Internet, they were extremely cautious and required Apple to protect their music from being illegally copied. The solution was to create a DRM system, which envelopes each song purchased from the iTunes store in special and secret software so that it cannot be played on unauthorized devices.

Apple was able to negotiate landmark usage rights at the time, which include allowing users to play their DRM protected music on up to 5 computers and on an unlimited number of iPods. Obtaining such rights from the music companies was unprecedented at the time, and even today is unmatched by most other digital music services. However, a key provision of our agreements with the music companies is that if our DRM system is compromised and their music becomes playable on unauthorized devices, we have only a small number of weeks to fix the problem or they can withdraw their entire music catalog from our iTunes store.

The third alternative is to abolish DRMs entirely. Imagine a world where every online store sells DRM-free music encoded in open licensable formats. In such a world, any player can play music purchased from any store, and any store can sell music which is playable on all players. This is clearly the best alternative for consumers, and Apple would embrace it in a heartbeat. If the big four music companies would license Apple their music without the requirement that it be protected with a DRM, we would switch to selling only DRM-free music on our iTunes store. Every iPod ever made will play this DRM-free music.

Why would the big four music companies agree to let Apple and others distribute their music without using DRM systems to protect it? The simplest answer is because DRMs haven’t worked, and may never work, to halt music piracy. Though the big four music companies require that all their music sold online be protected with DRMs, these same music companies continue to sell billions of CDs a year which contain completely unprotected music. That’s right! No DRM system was ever developed for the CD, so all the music distributed on CDs can be easily uploaded to the Internet, then (illegally) downloaded and played on any computer or player.

Some have argued that once a consumer purchases a body of music from one of the proprietary music stores, they are forever locked into only using music players from that one company. Or, if they buy a specific player, they are locked into buying music only from that company’s music store. Is this true? Let’s look at the data for iPods and the iTunes store – they are the industry’s most popular products and we have accurate data for them. Through the end of 2006, customers purchased a total of 90 million iPods and 2 billion songs from the iTunes store. On average, that’s 22 songs purchased from the iTunes store for each iPod ever sold.

Today’s most popular iPod holds 1000 songs, and research tells us that the average iPod is nearly full. This means that only 22 out of 1000 songs, or under 3% of the music on the average iPod, is purchased from the iTunes store and protected with a DRM. The remaining 97% of the music is unprotected and playable on any player that can play the open formats. It’s hard to believe that just 3% of the music on the average iPod is enough to lock users into buying only iPods in the future. And since 97% of the music on the average iPod was not purchased from the iTunes store, iPod users are clearly not locked into the iTunes store to acquire their music.

[Zirak]

My whole problem with all of these alternate devices is that none of them can replace my satellite box. My wife watches all kinds of stuff from DiY, Food Network, and I don't know what all else. We watch stuff from BBC America and SyFy as well as the normal networks, etc. A lot of that can be done with one of these by using stuff like Netflix, Hulu, and I don't know what else. Some of it I'm not sure you can get other than through cable or satellite. I don't want to have to comb the internet to find the shows that I or my wife want to watch on tv - I want to go to my tv, turn it on, change the channel, and there's my show. None of these things - AppleTV, GoogleTV, or Roku can do that yet to the best of my knowledge and thus cannot serve as a replacement and are, to me, a waste of money.

[Breand]

Grieve, maybe this is why you are a supporter of big government: Just because someone wrote something down for others to read, doesn't make any of it the truth =)

[Grieve]

My whole problem with all of these alternate devices is that none of them can replace my satellite box. My wife watches all kinds of stuff from DiY, Food Network, and I don't know what all else. We watch stuff from BBC America and SyFy as well as the normal networks, etc.

That is my problem as well. Just as I find a solution that covers 99% of my wife's viewing habits on ABC, NBC, FOX, etc, she comes back with "but what about my shows on DIY and HGTV"? Hopefully there will one day be options for all those, once the providers stop being so anal. I blame Breand and his cable companies for exerting too much pressure.

[Grieve]

Grieve, maybe this is why you are a supporter of big government: Just because someone wrote something down for others to read, doesn't make any of it the truth =)

How dare you question the One True Word of the almighty one???? Verify thou shalt be smitten from above for thy unbelief!!

[Vanraw]

DRM was one of the greatest enablers of the rebirth / Apple's success in the small device and online markets. Steve Jobs knows this. One thing Steve Jobs isnt, is stupid.

Water under the bridge really. Im happy for apple really. Without them we would still be using 16 bit windows 98.....

The thing that is interesting about apple (and laughable about microsoft) is timing (along with a smidgen of good design).

Take the iPhone. I have a phone in my desk made by samsung that had Windows CE on it that did everything the iPhone did. In fact the new black berry looks just like it. Main difference is that mine is like 10 years old. Then take the iPad. Microsoft had the idea of a tablet PC and made the software for it. It worked quite well. But it was before its time. Microsoft also wanted to bring the internet and media to every house hold in America. They had a product that did it like 10 years ago. Then they went with Xbox. No you have to wonder if they will lose to Google, and apple again. Same thing with online collaboration. Microsoft envisioned a world where all software such as excell, word etc, was all online and free or pay per usage. Google is going to kick there ass there too.

So if you want to start a great business, take a look at what Microsoft is doing right now, and this in about 10 years release it when the world and the technology is ready

[Grieve]

Apple don't always have perfect timing either - remember the Newton? One of the first things Steve Jobs killed off when he returned to Apple.